Star Worshipping

[MrBamSeydu]

Clearly viewing every single issue through an orange lens.

Fulmer's recruiting slipped. YOU need to go look at the rankings. Up until the 2005 class, he recruited very well. After the 2005 losing season, the 2006 signing class was ranked in the 20s. 2007 was solid (9th) but then again in 2008 (ranked in the 30s) he dipped again. He was fired after his 2 worst-ever signing classes in a 4 year period. You cannot have 2 down classes in a 4 year period. It's no coincidence that his 2 worst seasons were during the same period as his 2 worst signing classes (06 and 08).

It's no secret that attrition has hurt us to this point. Again, that's why I believe Dooley is recruiting guys who WANT to be here. We can't afford to lose anyone right now.

But he cannot just recruit kids with potential. We can't beat Florida or Alabama with less-talented players. We need to at LEAST get on par with them (within the next 2-3 years) in recruiting. Otherwise, we're just hoping our coaches can out-coach them. And I don't like those odds. As much as I hate Kiffin now, that staff was going to be a stud-recruiting staff. We would've had a top 3 class this year... no doubt in my mind.

 

[MDBJJC]

Kiffin had pulled together some stud recruiters no doubt, but at what cost?

 

[Tux]

I'm sure he ignored the fact that Seantrel Henderson was the #1 overall prospect.

I'm sure that he evaluated his ability through film study and /or in person.

 

[sjt18]

Clearly viewing every single issue through an orange lens.

Fulmer's recruiting slipped. YOU need to go look at the rankings. Up until the 2005 class, he recruited very well. After the 2005 losing season, the 2006 signing class was ranked in the 20s. 2007 was solid (9th) but then again in 2008 (ranked in the 30s) he dipped again. He was fired after his 2 worst-ever signing classes in a 4 year period. You cannot have 2 down classes in a 4 year period. It's no coincidence that his 2 worst seasons were during the same period as his 2 worst signing classes (06 and 08).

The classes could have been part of the justification but they weren't a big part of the on field reasons. The 08 class had very little effect on the field in 08. The classes that sunk his boat were partly 04 and then 05 to 07: 11th, 4th, 23rd (and relatively small at 22 signees), and 3rd.

Where did you get 07 as 9th?

The correlation has absolutely nothing to do with the 08 class... and EVERYTHING to do with recruiting a bunch of talented guys who he couldn't keep on the field because of grades or conduct.

You can live in denial all you want. It was NOT a lack of signing 4-5* players that got Fulmer fired. It was attrition with those guys.

It's no secret that attrition has hurt us to this point. Again, that's why I believe Dooley is recruiting guys who WANT to be here. We can't afford to lose anyone right now.

And that necessarily means they aren't talented enough to win championships?

But he cannot just recruit kids with potential. We can't beat Florida or Alabama with less-talented players. We need to at LEAST get on par with them (within the next 2-3 years) in recruiting. Otherwise, we're just hoping our coaches can out-coach them. And I don't like those odds.

I agree. His job depends on finding and developing talent good enough to compete with UF and Bama. If he fails then he loses his job. Pretty simple... and that's why I think the staff believes in the guys they're offering and taking commits from.

Let me put it this way, Downs is a fast, smart kid with good height and hands. He's athletic and smooth for a guy his side... on par with guys who are ranked higher. But he has not been coached as well and needs work on alot of football skills. He's a high character guy who has never been in a S&C program like he'll experience at UT.

Please tell me why you can't win championships developing raw talent like that. Please tell me why your chances are better with the kind of 4-5* recruits that the homestate schools like UF and UGA pass on because of character or grade issues. Do you really think no one knew who Vinson was? Morley? Fulmer thought he could keep those guys in line. He couldn't.

As much as I hate Kiffin now, that staff was going to be a stud-recruiting staff. We would've had a top 3 class this year... no doubt in my mind.

So with one hand you type a condemnation of Fulmer who avg'd 10th according to Rivals in the years leading to his firing... then with the other praise Kiffin who seemed to be recruiting the same kind of guys. There is already significant attrition with CLK's last class. I just hope DD can hold the rest of it together long enough for them to help the program.

FTR, there should be doubt in your mind. He was going to be the object of negative recruiting like no coach has ever seen. None of the coaches you say UT has to compete with respected him. There's just as good of a chance that they would have squashed him like a bug as he would have strung together one top 5 class after another.

 

[Lord Vader]

Vols have had 3 top 10 classes in the last 4 years.

Look at the state of our program.

 

[Indianavol4eva]

gotta keep the class together.

 

[Tampavolz]

actually not recruiting drama queens and head cases would be the best way to go to keep the classes together. The character issue is real and less off feild drama is welcome and I feel you can win without the off feild BS.

 

[justingroves]

Why was Fulmer fired then? Was he just a bad coach all of a sudden? Or did his talent-level drop off? Look at his 2008 signing class.

If we wanted to stick with 3* / high-character rosters we shouldn't have ever fired Fulmer.

In the end winning is what matters and that's the truth.

Fulmer wasn't bringing in very "high character" guys.

He was bringing in drunk punters, a guy too lazy too go to bowling class and some titty baby QBs.

 

[sjt18]

gotta keep the class together.

Right. That's where some of us keep going back to.

I think ESPN's rankings make a useful example.

If you can get a player rated 82 who has a prima donna attitude, questionable academic discipline, and/or attitude/behavior risks or you can get a kid rated 78 who is a serious student who keeps their nose clean... which one is the better risk?

Using that same system, if you can avg a 77 while someone else avg's 82 but you retain 85% of your players while they retain less than 70%... wouldn't the underrated guys balance out against the "sure fire" guys who were lost by the other team?

IMO, that's what DD is hoping for. He's trying to find the 3* guys who are either flying under the radar or who need a little more development BUT have the kind of academics and character that reduces the risk of losing them early.

 

[sjt18]

Fulmer wasn't bringing in very "high character" guys.

He was bringing in drunk punters, a guy too lazy too go to bowling class and some titty baby QBs.

But they had stars... that's all that matters.