State of the Union Address

#528
#528
tigervol9802 said:
Well, of course not.

I am also a big fan of localizing education more as well.
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school vouchers could be the answer. those schools not providing a solid education at the voucher price will go out of business. of course a decent % of parents will probably be too lazy to take advantage of said program.
 
#529
#529
droski said:
school vouchers could be the answer. those schools not providing a solid education at the voucher price will go out of business. of course a decent % of parents will probably be too lazy to take advantage of said program.
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I'm a big proponent of vouchers.

Then again, I'm also one of those idiots that wonders if the Department of Education isn't worth takign a good hard look at and overhauling as well.
 
#530
#530
tigervol9802 said:
I'm a big proponent of vouchers.
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my wife's school has no endowment to speak of, but spends less per student than the average for california public schools. of course they don't have the huge ass administration that the public schools have.
 
#531
#531
tigervol9802 said:
Then again, I'm also one of those idiots that wonders if the Department of Education isn't worth takign a good hard look at and overhauling as well.
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i have a friend who works for a long beach public school. they have a superintendant, principle, vice principle, multiple what they call sub superintendants, and massive office staff. the ones from the vice principle up are all making over $100k a year. superitendant makes $250k a year. and let's not forget they get 80% of their last years salary for life, indexed for inflation after they retire. ridiculous waste.
 
#532
#532
droski said:
my wife's school has no endowment to speak of, but spends less per student than the average for california public schools. of course they don't have the huge ass administration that the public schools have.
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When my father died in 2002, he was the director of schools for a 1 K-8 school district. Under him he had a principal for the school and a directior of special education.

Today there are at least 10 administrative people in the same school district and the school district probably hasn't grown by 10%.
 
#533
#533
Ihatethebuckeyes said:
Degrees do not dictate salary. I'm sorry but they don't.

...

I know this ticks you off because you feel that a person who spends a decade in school jumping through hoops deserves more but they don't.
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I totally agree with this.

I'm not arguing that a teacher should be paid more because they have some degrees, or because they work hard, or because they have stress, or anything like that.

I'm just arguing that they aren't paid well, in an absolute sense. And that therefore, talented people don't want to bother with the job, for the most part.

If we claim to want better results, shouldn't we try to get better people overseeing the enterprise?

And, isn't better pay a must, if we want to attract more talented individuals?
 
#534
#534
utvolpj said:
couldn't be more wrong on that one either. Different game requires completely different tactics. Heck the same game in different parts of the country aren't hunted the same way
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I didn't say different game. I said deer.

Same animal.
 
#536
#536
StepCross said:
I totally agree with this.

I'm not arguing that a teacher should be paid more because they have some degrees, or because they work hard, or because they have stress, or anything like that.

I'm just arguing that they aren't paid well, in an absolute sense. And that therefore, talented people don't want to bother with the job, for the most part.

If we claim to want better results, shouldn't we try to get better people overseeing the enterprise?

And, isn't better pay a must, if we want to attract more talented individuals?
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overhaul the total system and I'm ok with 45K per year per teacherc to start with a max out of 65K.

overhaul means:

Flunk the kids who are lazy.

Make sure the kids that want to learn have every chance to learn

Make sure a student that wants to go to college can without going into massive debt

kick everyone out of welfare who was to lazy to graduate school.

Only give welfare for 6 months.

You do all those and I'm ok.

Kid wants to be lazy and flunks out he flunks out and I'm not supportinh him.

Don't pass a kid just to get him out of your hair and into my wallet.
 
#537
#537
Ihatethebuckeyes said:
overhaul means:

Flunk the kids who are lazy.

Make sure the kids that want to learn have every chance to learn

Make sure a student that wants to go to college can without going into massive debt

kick everyone out of welfare who was to lazy to graduate school.

Only give welfare for 6 months.
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I could live with all that. On the "flunk the kids who are lazy," I'd even say kick them out, once they're middle-school age or older. BUT that means there would have to be some place to put them. Maybe trade school, or something. Or force them into some sort of community service.

Even pay them if you want, and if they're halfway useful. It would get them out of the school where they're just making trouble and learning nothing, it would give them a chance to earn some money (legally), which might get them out of a bad home situation, and they might even take it seriously. Maybe.

On the other comment I bolded, it will be hard to make college affordable. The states used to pay like 70-80% of operating costs for state universities. They've slashed and slashed to the point that they now pay more like 30-40%. That's why tuition and fees keep going up and up, so much faster than inflation.

Lower tuition would have to be subsidized by state coffers, and states like Tennessee would not support that.
 
#539
#539
utgibbs said:
I believe Marx said education should be linked to the means of production. I absolutely agree, AND I think it should be included in the public education system.
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thank you for finally acknowledging that you are a Marxist, because only a Marxist could find virtue in the ramblings of that demented cretin
 
#540
#540
obamarehearseshissotu.jpg
 
#541
#541
Ihatethebuckeyes said:
overhaul the total system and I'm ok with 45K per year per teacherc to start with a max out of 65K.

overhaul means:

Flunk the kids who are lazy.

Make sure the kids that want to learn have every chance to learn

Make sure a student that wants to go to college can without going into massive debt

kick everyone out of welfare who was to lazy to graduate school.

Only give welfare for 6 months.

You do all those and I'm ok.

Kid wants to be lazy and flunks out he flunks out and I'm not supportinh him.

Don't pass a kid just to get him out of your hair and into my wallet.
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I can agree with all of this. Our current welfare system lends itself to cheaters. Drug test them all and enforce stricter regulations. Something needs to be done with people on welfare having children, too, but I can offer no reasonable solution to that.
 
#543
#543
droski said:
he absolutely right in my experience.
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He's completely wrong in mine. My sister and I each went to separate private schools... both small, Christian institutions. Most of the teachers were members of the church. They seemed to do alright fiscally, given the cars they drove. The education was lackluster. Had I not transferred to public school where I could take AP classes, I would have been 100% clueless in college as my sister was, who had to spend 2 semesters taking dev. classes.
 
#544
#544
DinkinFlicka said:
He's completely wrong in mine. My sister and I each went to separate private schools... both small, Christian institutions. Most of the teachers were members of the church. They seemed to do alright fiscally, given the cars they drove. The education was lackluster. Had I not transferred to public school where I could take AP classes, I would have been 100% clueless in college as my sister was, who had to spend 2 semesters taking dev. classes.
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the statistics speak for themselves. a far higher percentage of private school students go to college and receive graduate degrees than public school students.
 
#545
#545
droski said:
the statistics speak for themselves. a far higher percentage of private school students go to college and receive graduate degrees than public school students.
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Well, duh.

That doesn't change the quality of education.
 
#548
#548
droski said:
are you really arguing that on average public education is better than private education?
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This is one of the most ridiculous red herrings I have yet encountered on this board. Public education is about ensuring the "great unwashed" become literate and numerate. It needs a complete reboot, but this principle remains one of civilizations great accomplishments.

Suggesting well-to-do kids go to college more than poor kids gets a "Well, DUH!" sticker, droski.

But, let us see this data! I bet on a per capita expenditure the public schools outperform.
 
#550
#550
utgibbs said:
But, let us see this data! I bet on a per capita expenditure the public schools outperform.
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Actually, he's in a worse spot than you give him credit for.

This all started because I said teachers were paid poorly, and therefore most people (who might otherwise be good at it) will not even consider a teaching career.

He countered by saying that poorly paid teachers in small religious private schools outperform public school teachers.

So, in his data, he cannot include elite private schools like (say) Webb or McCallie, as those are actually contrary to his whole argument.
 
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