States Force Prisoners to Pay for Stay

#127
#127
hog88 said:
I would agree but 1 innocent person in prison is too many. Plus this conversation wasn't about those already convicted.
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Ok and some of those “innocent” made the decision to plea. This isn’t the 1960s where big city cops routinely beat confessions of truly innocent people. I would estimate 99% of those currently in prison are guilty of said crime
 
#129
#129
825VOL said:
Yes. A very well trained lawyer can get someone off regardless of their guilt or the law. An overworked, disinterested lawyer will plead out his clients to just get the case closed and to get paid his meager sum. Also, the well trained lawyer will intimidate the prosecution at times. Remember, the prosecution doesn’t care about quilt or innocence, only conviction rate. So they are more likely to lower the charges for the person with a good/great attorney. Yes, the law is applied differently if you have money
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On the other hand, wouldn't it make more sense to lock up and charge people with the means to pay the fees than working harder to nab the the indigent? Our society has a big problem with counting score at the micro rather than the macro level - and it promotes quick fixes and systemic laziness.
 
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#130
#130
Rickyvol77 said:
Not unless something was done illegal. Just because OJ Simpson or Caycee Anthony was found innocent doesn’t mean the prosecution shouldn’t have happened
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I figured that would be your response. But what about all of the truly innocent that were found not guilty but had their lives ruined because the prosecution got it wrong?
 
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#131
#131
AM64 said:
On the other hand, wouldn't it make more sense to lock up and charge people with the means to pay the fees than working harder to nab the the indigent? Our society has a big problem with counting score at the micro rather than the macro level - and it promotes quick fixes and systemic laziness.
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I agree if we brought back mental illness asylums and housing it would help, but no one on either side have the stomach for that
 
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#132
#132
hog88 said:
I figured that would be your response. But what about all of the truly innocent that were found not guilty but had their lives ruined because the prosecution got it wrong?
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I’m all for anyone proven to be innocent being released immediately and compensated by the government fairly. But that’s NOT the systemic norm in any way shape or form
 
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#133
#133
Rickyvol77 said:
Ok and some of those “innocent” made the decision to plea. This isn’t the 1960s where big city cops routinely beat confessions of truly innocent people. I would estimate 99% of those currently in prison are guilty of said crime
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I've seen how many, way to many of these plea deals work with people that don't have the money for a good defense. They overcharge someone, threaten them with years behind bars then offer a plea for a suspended sentence.
 
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#135
#135
Rickyvol77 said:
I’m all for anyone proven to be innocent being released immediately and compensated by the government fairly. But that’s NOT the systemic norm in any way shape or form
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There is not finding of innocence.
 
#136
#136
hog88 said:
I've seen how many, way to many of these plea deals work with people that don't have the money for a good defense. They overcharge someone, threaten them with years behind bars then offer a plea for a suspended sentence.
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Ok and? Don’t take a plea if you are innocent. Don’t commit crimes if you aren’t. It’s not rocket science. The great great majority of people who actually go to prison not jail are career criminals. Very rarely does some newbie just show up as an arrest with no priors and suddenly gets the chair or life in prison
 
#137
#137
LouderVol said:
Civil is not criminal, aka no government.

If you want the prisoner to pay for his costs, figure out what the sentence length is, average value, and then fine him at sentencing as well.

Dont backdoor payments upon release that werent part of sentencing. It's not justice to administer more punishment than what is assigned at sentencing.

In case you missed it some states have these laws for people in jail, awaiting trial. Yeah your innocent butt could theoretically be billed for the government falsely accusing you and sitting you in jail for 6 months. The article didnt mention that ever happening, but considering it's perfectly legal, in those states, and you have people like Ricky out here, it's scary that it exists. At all.
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How do you fine a murderer with no assets?

I am also not talking about the time waiting for trial. That’s not fair. No one should owe during that.

I am strictly talking about post conviction.

I think once someone is convicted they should somehow pay for the cost to jail them whether that is a fine they can pay at sentencing or a job paid at fair market value where they can keep the remaining money left after cost.

Each prison should have a set rate and that set rate must be approved by the state or feds so the inmate knows the entire cost of their stay.

I am also not a fan of for profit prisons and think those need to go.
 
#140
#140
hog88 said:
You're barking up the wrong tree. I'm in 100% agreement that charging prisoners for their confinement is bullshot.
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Then what should be the alternative form of punishment, or do we just waive off penalties and hope people don't repeat their sins? If confined prisoners don't pay for their incarceration in some way other than time out, then we become their victims all over again.
 
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#142
#142
Rickyvol77 said:
So tell the whole story
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Cops busted a field party claiming there was a noise complaint. I called the cop a damn liar because everyone living close enough to hear the party was at the party. Hadn't had a drop to drink at that point but was arrested for public intoxication, so for the 30 minute ride to the jail I politely told the guy his wife's and sisters entire sexual history of when we were in HS. It was extensive.
 
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#146
#146
AM64 said:
Then what should be the alternative form of punishment, or do we just waive off penalties and hope people don't repeat their sins? If confined prisoners don't pay for their incarceration in some way other than time out, then we become their victims all over again.
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If a judge hands down a fine as part of the sentence Ok. But if prisoners are not afforded the means to earn money to pay for their incarceration they shouldn't be charged for it.
 
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#149
#149
hog88 said:
Cops busted a field party claiming there was a noise complaint. I called the cop a damn liar because everyone living close enough to hear the party was at the party. Hadn't had a drop to drink at that point but was arrested for public intoxication, so for the 30 minute ride to the jail I politely told the guy his wife's and sisters entire sexual history of when we were in HS. It was extensive.
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Ok so a couple of things:
-you have no real idea if he got a noise complaint on you all or not. Am I assuming that you were not on your property or maybe you were? So you started pissed off on an assumption that you don’t know for sure
- ok maybe the podunk county officer was being a redneck a-hole to you. No excuse for that and I wouldn’t have been that way either. But that’s not all officers everywhere
- and what did the magistrate say to you and what was the outcome
 
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