States Force Prisoners to Pay for Stay

#153
#153
Rickyvol77 said:
Ok so a couple of things:
-you have no real idea if he got a noise complaint on you all or not. Am I assuming that you were not on your property or maybe you were? So you started pissed off on an assumption that you don’t know for sure
- ok maybe the podunk county officer was being a redneck a-hole to you. No excuse for that and I wouldn’t have been that way either. But that’s not all officers everywhere
- and what did the magistrate say to you and what was the outcome
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I know for sure nobody called in a complaint. The only people that lived within 2 miles were there.
Yes they guy was an ******* all the way back to HS.
Threw me in the drunk tank until 8am in the morning. No fine.
 
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#155
#155
Rickyvol77 said:
I’m more acceptable with this concept but never for taxpayer money to go for someone’s defense who could afford it
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Define afford? 25% of net value? 50%? 75%?

Wipes out their life savings? Causes them to sell their house and car, end a marriage? Pull their kids from school.

If they are innocent, like the Consitution says, it's worth almost any money to protect them from the government. This was one of our founding issues. Especially since we are spending a good bit of money to prosecute these people.

It's not a one sided affair of costs.
 
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#158
#158
NEO said:
How do you fine a murderer with no assets?

I am also not talking about the time waiting for trial. That’s not fair. No one should owe during that.

I am strictly talking about post conviction.

I think once someone is convicted they should somehow pay for the cost to jail them whether that is a fine they can pay at sentencing or a job paid at fair market value where they can keep the remaining money left after cost.

Each prison should have a set rate and that set rate must be approved by the state or feds so the inmate knows the entire cost of their stay.

I am also not a fan of for profit prisons and think those need to go.
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So we are making them wage slaves? Cant afford to pay, here's a nice jail sentence for you to earn cash for Uncle Sam.

This is exactly a for profit prison system. The government is giving itself more.money and power by having people in jail. That is wrong.
 
#160
#160
Rickyvol77 said:
What are you talking about. Miranda doesn’t have to do with this
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The Miranda warning outlines the following rights:

  1. You have the right to remain silent
  2. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law
  3. You have the right to an attorney
  4. If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be appointed for you
It is your right to an attorney and one will be appointed to you if you can't afford or choose not to pay for one. That is why we pay for defense attorney's. Change the law and we don't have to pay.
 
#161
#161
NEO said:
How do you fine a murderer with no assets?

I am also not talking about the time waiting for trial. That’s not fair. No one should owe during that.

I am strictly talking about post conviction.

I think once someone is convicted they should somehow pay for the cost to jail them whether that is a fine they can pay at sentencing or a job paid at fair market value where they can keep the remaining money left after cost.

Each prison should have a set rate and that set rate must be approved by the state or feds so the inmate knows the entire cost of their stay.

I am also not a fan of for profit prisons and think those need to go.
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If you are going to do that why not let them work and pay them fairly for the work they do? Minimum wage for picking up trash? Count against their daily cost?
 
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#163
#163
I am only allowed to buy furniture at school through the Maryland Correctional Enterprises. State law. The costs are high and delivery takes weeks to months.
 
#164
#164
82_VOL_83 said:
The Miranda warning outlines the following rights:

  1. You have the right to remain silent
  2. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law
  3. You have the right to an attorney
  4. If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be appointed for you
It is your right to an attorney and one will be appointed to you if you can't afford or choose not to pay for one. That is why we pay for defense attorney's. Change the law and we don't have to pay.
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But we don’t have to pay for Robert Shapiro for everyone
 
#165
#165
82_VOL_83 said:
Really? YOU are the final arbiter?
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In the cases that I made arrests? I am the one who charged them. And I never was wrong or unfair or did anything illegal. They did the crimes I charged them with or I had enough reasonable suspicion and probable cause that they did.
The judge and/or the juries were final arbitrators.
 
#166
#166
LouderVol said:
What do you do if they cant afford it? Keep them longer?

What do you do if thet refuse to pay? It's becoming straight up debtors prisons.

Most states got rid of chain gangs because we determined that was wrong.

And this literally creates an environment where the only way they have to make a living is in jail? The only time they have a means of self support is in jail? That is jacked up, and creates a trap. This jacks up recidivism to 13, and oh yeah the government profits from it. we should not be incentivizing the government to lock up its citizens.

The government should be doing everything possible to keep people out of jail
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Actually, nothing happens. In fact, except for cases where we make the counterclaim, it never comes up.

You may be thinking of fines imposes by the judge at sentencing. That's a different animal.
 
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#169
#169
LouderVol said:
So we are making them wage slaves? Cant afford to pay, here's a nice jail sentence for you to earn cash for Uncle Sam.

This is exactly a for profit prison system. The government is giving itself more.money and power by having people in jail. That is wrong.
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Wage slaves?

They would have to work if they were outside of prison.

Why should inside be any different?

So they commit a crime and now get to live and eat for free as a reward?

Give them a job. Pay what that would pay to a non prisoner at the same exact wage and then charge them the rate it cost us to house them in prison and then let them keep the rest to give to their families or use for extra food or whatever they want.

How the hell is that unfair?

That’s how everyone in America lives.
 
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#170
#170
hog88 said:
If a judge hands down a fine as part of the sentence Ok. But if prisoners are not afforded the means to earn money to pay for their incarceration they shouldn't be charged for it.
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Now that I agree with. Prisoners should be charged for room and board, and they should be allowed to work for the income to do so. But you know the left is going to go off on slave labor and talk about the old days of chain gangs.
 
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#171
#171
AM64 said:
Now that I agree with. Prisoners should be charged for room and board, and they should be allowed to work for the income to do so. But you know the left is going to go off on slave labor and talk about the old days of chain gangs.
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They need to work and labor..not sit on their ass, conspire and just pump iron. Idle hands and all grows the crazy
 
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#172
#172
hog88 said:
Great, all for it if they are afforded the means to earn sufficient wages while incarcerated.

We taxpayers should be pushing candidates that will vote to stop the mass incarceration of non-violent offenders. Until then we should pay for our decision to be "tough on crime".
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How about a non-violent CEO who in the name of profit decides that collecting all kinds of personal information about customers or anybody else they can nab, doesn't see fit to properly protect data they shouldn't even have, and turns a lot of innocent people into victims of stolen identity or theft? Those guys should be buried under the damn jail, but they skate every time. Crimes aren't victimless, and just because they aren't violent doesn't mean squat as far as damage done. It seems there are more ways to theft by non violent means than by violent means. What about people who commit suicide or otherwise die prematurely because of non violent fraud.
 
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#173
#173
AM64 said:
Now that I agree with. Prisoners should be charged for room and board, and they should be allowed to work for the income to do so. But you know the left is going to go off on slave labor and talk about the old days of chain gangs.
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When I still owned the call center we had a work release program. They would bring the prisoners in and we would pay them and then they would pick them up at the end of the day.

It was about that time I got my concealed carry permit and began having serious talks with my wife about moving the call center to Asia or selling it. I thought she would be gun ho about going to makati but I was dead wrong. In the end it was dealing with prisoners every day and half way houses that made me sell it. Not a day goes by a miss it though.
 
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#174
#174
NEO said:
I can see that stance.

I just think we as a society should not be bearing that burden.

But I also believe we shouldn’t be incarcerating anyone who isn’t violent.

There needs to be a much better way to deal with non violent issues and white collar crime.
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You can't really end white collar crime until you make it personal. The company doesn't get to pay a fine and the exec smiles and keeps on. The best way to make it personal for white collar crime is take away his/her freedom, and that doesn't mean wearing an ankle bracelet in a mansion. Living close up and personal with victims is a great life lesson.
 
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#175
#175
Rickyvol77 said:
So now the defense needs to have paid experts too and resources of the FBI for free? Lol
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FBI and other "official" labs are potentially a bit like bad officiating in a sporting event, and there's no official way to counter it. Maybe the labs are really accurate, but what when they are there to prove something without potentially ruling out everything else? I admit I'm biased because for years I did testing for problems (often unique) in nuclear power plants. We didn't do a quick assessment, determine the likely cause, and then set out to prove it. Rather we started with an open mind, tested, refined, retested, and let the data tell us what happened; that's not what I see in a lot of police work. I don't mean intentionally include the absurd, but at least don't be guilty of bias. Remember a few years ago the UT football players and how the sexual assault charges went?
 
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