Status of Coach Willie Martinez

[jeff1vol]

So in your opinion fans shouldn’t have opinions. Got it. We all have to like every move our head coach makes without question right?

Yeah... they ALWAYS know better. Even if a certain unit on the team fails MISERABLY for multiple years. Brilliant. Helen Keller could see Willmart sucks.

 

[volfan411]

He been 3 years so wheres his recruits been

Do you realize we had existing players on the roster and a scholarship reduction?? Did you want CJH to pull a Deon and run everyone on the off?

this is the first season he has had a clean slate with his recruits.

 

[jeff1vol]

VN: We need more recruiters on staff.

Also VN: We need to fire one of the best recruiters in staff.

Again... where are his studs? He's going on year 4. Best recruiter? Hardly. The guys he recruited that were "supposed" to be good can't even get on the field and we continue to throw the same ol guys out there. Can't have it both ways. Either he sucks at evaluations or coaching. Cuz it ain't working on the field.

 

[volfan411]

Again... where are his studs? He's going on year 4. Best recruiter? Hardly. The guys he recruited that were "supposed" to be good can't even get on the field and we continue to throw the same ol guys out there. Can't have it both ways. Either he sucks at evaluations or coaching. Cuz it ain't working on the field.

Gibson, Thomas, Matthews, Carter, McMurray, McCoy. Again he inherited a roster that had limited space for his recruits.

 

[sami]

I get it. You have this belief that our coaching staff can do no wrong. While I will fully admit everyone on our staff has for gotten more football then I will ever know, I have two eyes and ears. I can read stats. I can watch our DBs routinely miss tackles, be out of position, be terrible at fundamentals and get torched. You obviously cannot. The secondary has been bad since Martinez took over.

If you can’t see that Martinez isn’t a good coach then I don’t know what to tell you. Plenty of head coaches evaluate their staff and replace them. Kelly and Napier have done it. Saban and Smart have done it. In my opinion, which is no better than yours, it’s a red flag that Heupel refuses to at least TRY and upgrade some position coaches. You can disagree or agree. Frankly I don’t care. But my opinion on this matter hasn’t hurt nor helped this team.

Or it could be that the mass exodus of secondary players was the change being made, that clearing the deck and recruiting and signing better talent was deemed to be the most effective solution. I don't know, none of us do, but I'm willing to give the first good coach we've had here in two decades the benefit of the doubt at this point regarding his staff, especially given the fact that this is in essence only year three.

 

[Owl-flavored]

At first I thought the thread title was "Statue of Willie Martinez"

And then I put my glasses on.

 

[volfan411]

Or it could be that the mass exodus of secondary players was the change being made, that clearing the deck and recruiting and signing better talent was deemed to be the most effective solution. I don't know, none of us do, but I'm willing to give the first good coach we've had here in two decades the benefit of the doubt at this point regarding his staff, especially given the fact that this is in essence only year three.

IMO this is exactly what happened. we finally had enough young talent that the staff felt comfortable letting the older guys go. Where would we have been last year if this exodus happened? Half these posters would be in a mental institute if we had to start two true freshman at CB.

 

[jeff1vol]

Gibson, Thomas, Matthews, Carter, McMurray, McCoy. Again he inherited a roster that had limited space for his recruits.

Ok. Why didn't they play over the inherited players? Good freshman DB's play all the time in this conference. Alontae Taylor started as a freshman. Dwayne Goodrich. Terry Fair. These guys didn't play or were VERY limited until the bowl game. Who knows. All I DO know is that our secondary sucks, both in coverage and run support.

 

[Stonewall83]

They can't talk to players or recruits regarding money but do have input to how money is used.

There is no way any program could be managed if an outside source was deciding how much players were paid. That could easily destroy a program. Staff has to have some over sight and I believe the NCAA just announced a change allowing that even more.

That’s kinda how I figured it would have to work.

Coached gonna have to dig in on some of these kids and watch them hit the portal. Gonna be a problem everyone has.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Heup values cohesion. It can be both a blessing and a curse.

I think more than anything, Heup values winning. Just like all coaches everywhere, especially those paid big bucks to deliver success in the form of Ws and championships.

How he goes about winning, his focus on closeness, a sense of family, well, that's one of the things that make him unique. And so far, he has certainly earned our support. Astounds me when a few folks on these boards think they know better than him how to manage the coaching staff (including hiring/firing).

Go Vols!

 

[LWSVOL]

Ok. Why didn't they play over the inherited players? Good freshman DB's play all the time in this conference. Alontae Taylor started as a freshman. Dwayne Goodrich. Terry Fair. These guys didn't play or were VERY limited until the bowl game. Who knows. All I DO know is that our secondary sucks, both in coverage and run support.

freshman CBs and Ss play a lot of special teams their first year but very few play much secondary. Check the stats out and you can tell where they are playing.



they have trouble finding many reps on really bad teams as younger players no matter talent level.

 

[volfan411]

Ok. Why didn't they play over the inherited players? Good freshman DB's play all the time in this conference. Alontae Taylor started as a freshman. Dwayne Goodrich. Terry Fair. These guys didn't play or were VERY limited until the bowl game. Who knows. All I DO know is that our secondary sucks, both in coverage and run support.

I don’t really know the answer to your question but I suspect the coaches rewarded the players that stuck it out with them with playing time.

I also don’t know if the recruits we have are at the level of some of the greats you brought up.

 

[sami]

This is exactly what happened. we finally had enough young talent that the staff felt comfortable letting the older guys go. Where would we have been last year if this exodus happened? Half these posters would be in a mental institute if we had to start two true freshman at CB.

Truth. If this was year 5-6 for Heupel and we were having the same issues in the secondary, then it would make total sense to point fingers at the recruiting, development, or scheming of the secondary. I'm not saying that Banks and Martinez are the answer or not, but it's clear to anyone paying attention that this wasn't a stellar group of DB's when healthy, and then there was the rash of injuries.

The assumption that the exodus of DB's was these kids leaving Martinez is very handy, but very likely false. They were likely nudged out the door and told to look at other options. We'll have a much clearer picture by Oct-Nov.

 

[jeff1vol]

I don’t really know the answer to your question but I suspect the coaches rewarded the players that stuck it out with them with playing time.

I also don’t know if the recruits we have are at the level of some of the greats you brought up.

Well... the decision to keep CWM has been made, so there's nothing we can do now but hope to see drastic improvement moving forward. Hopefully these young bucks will end up like Taylor, Greer, etc. We need them badly.

 

[I4Vols]

This is exactly what happened. we finally had enough young talent that the staff felt comfortable letting the older guys go. Where would we have been last year if this exodus happened? Half these posters would be in a mental institute if we had to start two true freshman at CB.

Couple of interesting posts with this perspective, but is the merely opinion or based on some real info you can refrence? I haven't seen much written or said by former players ( Erik? Swain? Insight pls?).

I've wondered that the staff & NIL called some players bluff on $ vs newbies or thinking they could get better transfers for those bucks? Then I wondered if maybe they lost a couple to the portal that they did not want to lose?

Serious question & intent as I've not seen such a mass position exodus anywhere.

 

[volfan411]

Truth. If this was year 5-6 for Heupel and we were having the same issues in the secondary, then it would make total sense to point fingers at the recruiting, development, or scheming of the secondary. I'm not saying that Banks and Martinez are the answer or not, but it's clear to anyone paying attention that this wasn't a stellar group of DB's when healthy, and then there was the rash of injuries.

The assumption that the exodus of DB's was these kids leaving Martinez is very handy, but very likely false. They were likely nudged out the door and told to look at other options. We'll have a much clearer picture by Oct-Nov.

100% agree. If we don't see improvement this season I may jump on the fire WM bandwagon but I don't think we have enough data at this point to make a educated decision.

 

[kingkisses]

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

 

[volfan411]

Couple of interesting posts with this perspective, but is the merely opinion or based on some real info you can refrence? I haven't seen much written or said by former players ( Erik? Swain? Insight pls?).

I've wondered that the staff & NIL called some players bluff on $ vs newbies or thinking they could get better transfers for those bucks? Then I wondered if maybe they lost a couple to the portal that they did not want to lose?

Serious question & intent as I've not seen such a mass position exodus anywhere.

Sorry I am not an insider so that is just my opinion.

 

[just bob]

This is less than enthusing.

 

[jasonvol18]

Stop the worry..

He has signed a new contract. Announcement to be made in the coming weeks. Likely waiting on the rest of the staff to finalize deals.

For all of those still wondering about Willie.

Dammit man, what the hell is Heup thinking? He knows more than me , but damn. Our Secondary has not improved in 3 yrs.

 

[jasonvol18]

Because it was filled with players recruited by the previous coach. Have you not watched Gibson, Thomas and Matthew’s?? All players recruited by Martinez. It was also reported that Carter had great bowl practices.

Some of you guys amaze me you either make it up in your head and chose to ignore the situation this staff inherited.

Have you not watched our secondary the last 3 years or when he was here the first time?? That's the only answer you need!

 

[bigorangepoppa]

When DB is trying to catch up with the faster receiver, he's jut trying to keep as close as he can, doesn't have an opportunity to turn their head around. Hopefully the new ones coming in are a step or two faster. And giving credit where credit is due, think of how much Hadden improved from 2022 to 23.

 

[Vols1891]

I guess we won't see secondary covering any receivers within 5 yards and when they do, they will have their backs to the QB and not see the ball until after it is caught. I guess we will see ZERO proper tackling technique out of the secondary group as well. No man coverage, lax zone with people literally running wide open. Yay, I can't wait.....

I like to occasionally visit and browse through message boards of various different teams, both college and NFL. One thing I’ve noticed is that nearly every fanbase of teams with struggling defenses complains about their DBs not turning their heads around while the ball is on the way. It makes me wonder if the techniques currently being taught to defensive backs are different than what people are used to in the past.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

I like to occasionally visit and browse through message boards of various different teams, both college and NFL. One thing I’ve noticed is that nearly every fanbase of teams with struggling defenses complains about their DBs not turning their heads around while the ball is on the way. It makes me wonder if the techniques currently being taught to defensive backs are different than what people are used to in the past.

I don't think the techniques have changed. At least, not that drastically.

I think BigPoppa explained what you're seeing, here:

When DB is trying to catch up with the faster receiver, he's jut trying to keep as close as he can, doesn't have an opportunity to turn their head around. Hopefully the new ones coming in are a step or two faster. And giving credit where credit is due, think of how much Hadden improved from 2022 to 23.

It can be as simple as this: when you see a lot of kids not turning their heads, that probably means they're playing catch-up.

Waaaay simplified, what is normally coached goes something like this: (a) stay on his hip (b) if he gets away from you, get back to him (c) if you're in good position and he turns, you turn too, find the ball, and intercept (d) if you can't intercept, knock it out of his hands before it counts as a catch (e) if he makes the catch, strip the ball and get the fumble (f) if you can't strip it, tackle him. [some coaches do not emphasize (e), but go directly from (d) to (f)]

In other words, you're seeing our coverage break down at step (b) too often. We need more speed. Not different coaching.

Go Vols!

 

[Vols1891]

just a curious question. I don't have much opinion on WM good or bad. A staff can always be improved at every position and I know that.

Do you notice these things with other teams or just Tennessee? I've watched 230 college games this past fall and its pretty common with most teams to have some or all of those faults. A lot of the issues with DBs has to do with these offenses now and the lack of capable pressure on QBs. Outside of the elite consistent playoff teams, others have these issues. Of course those teams have great players from front to back but they still can get burned from time to time.

JMO

This is a very good point. I just posted a few minutes ago how I’ve noticed nearly every fanbase complain about their DBs recently, with the main complaint being that they don’t turn their heads. You can go to nearly every team’s message board and they are saying the same things that people gripe about here on Volnation.