Status of Tennessee Baseball

[v011s]

Virginia and unc are the same as Vandy. Others have lots of academic scholarships and ways to wave out of state tuition

I don't see how other schools offering academic scholarships hampers UT.

That means they have to go after players who also are eligible for academic scholarships.

 

[BruinVol]

I don't see how other schools offering academic scholarships hampers UT.

That means they have to go after players who also are eligible for academic scholarships.

As I understand it some schools have easier standards for academic scholarships. It's hard to get one at Tennessee.

 

[IPleadInsanity]

While Tennessee is not a baseball juggernaut, we have fielded some great teams and players. With our resources and fan base, there is no reason why we cannot field a competitive team each and every year. We should be able to win some SEC championship and obtain NCAA tournament births.

However, after reading this article I feel like there is a lot that can be improved on for Tennessee baseball. The gist of the article is discussing the revenue and profits of SEC baseball teams. We paid our head coach $679,000 (With bonuses and benefits). It shows our baseball program at a $4+ million deficit. Plus when you look at the facilities throughout the SEC, I think we can improve Lindsey Nelson.

Here's the article: http://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge/sports/lsu/article_5edd22c0-465c-11e7-8b99-c709d5eb08c1.html

You can say the same about 80% of the UT sports programs. I don't feel the administration is pushing for championships any longer. With the sharing on increased TV revenues and bowl money they have a choice, they no longer have to fill stadiums to make ends meet. Spend big money to win championships or spend just enough to pacify the fanbase. Risk or no risk. I think we know which way they went at UT.

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

Its a sh!t stadium, in a sh!t location with sh!tty parking.

Here's a couple of sun belt stadiums... ECU and CCU to be exact
View attachment 132075
View attachment 132076

Since when did ECU become a member of the Sun Belt? Until 10 years ago Coastal didn't have a football team. Baseball was their sport. The stadium was updated in 2012 before that it was a typical "mid-major" facility. As someone else said, CCU and some of the smaller baseball schools are the exception; they have venues on par with bigger schools not vice versa.There's very few teams who have top notch facilities across the board. Something typically "suffers".

Parking is an issue across campus for every sport, the school is pigeon holed between a river an interstate and downtown of a major metropolitan area.

In addition to the adult fans coming out, what makes a lot of the other SEC environments so great is the student support. UT has never attracted the students like Ole Miss, MSU and LSU do, even we we were winning during my time in Knoxville.

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

As I understand it some schools have easier standards for academic scholarships. It's hard to get one at Tennessee.

You honestly think UVA and Vandy have "easier" qualifications for academic aid than UT does? I asked this question last week in another thread and it got overlooked because I never got an answer; what prevents UT from doing it? It sounds more and more like we CHOOSE not to implement this option rather than Vandy has found some loophole. Every school has to abide by and answer to the NCAA rule book so it's not some built in advantage that only a select few schools are privy to; perhaps only a select few schools freely CHOOSE to spend their dollars in this arena to promote a certain sport. Vandy and UVA know it's gonna be a lot harder trying to find 85 baby geniuses who also happen to be great football players and sell them on coming there, than it is to find 15-20 baseball players who meet both criteria so they pour their resources into baseball instead.

 

[BruinVol]

You honestly think UVA and Vandy have "easier" qualifications for academic aid than UT does? I asked this question last week in another thread and it got overlooked, what prevents us from doing it? It sounds more and more like we CHOOSE not to implement this option rather than Vandy has found some loophole. Every school has to abide by and answer to the NCAA rule book so it's not some built in advantage that only a select few schools are privy to; perhaps only a select few schools freely CHOOSE to spend their dollars in this arena to promote a certain sport. Vandy and UVA know it's gonna be a lot harder trying to find 85 baby geniuses who also happen to be great football players and sell them on coming there, than it is to find 15-20 baseball players who meet both criteria so they pour their resources into baseball instead.

I must have missed it. Sorry. Good catch on Ecu not being in the Sunbelt. Hell coastal wasn't until this year.


No Vandy gets their advantage from financial aid based in family income not academci scholarships. The reason tenn can't do it is it would have to be done with all students which would be waaaay too much money. Tenn could however relax their acedmic scholarships requiremets if they wanted to but from what I can tell enrollment is going very well and they don't need to do anything to hurt the overall acedmic profile of the school by doing it.

 

[Orange&White]

I'm not saying all of our baseball facilities are lacking, I know we have great facilities for the team to use. But I do think our stadium could be improved. It is just a concrete jungle next to a railroad track. Now I am being picky too, I know Lindsey Nelson is still far better than what most teams play in throughout the country.

However, in my opinion, Mississippi State, Arkansas, LSU, South Carolina, Ole Miss, Texas A&M, Alabama have far better stadiums than we do. I'd put us right there with Auburn, Georgia, Florida, and Vanderbilt.

I know we do not have as much baseball support as some of those traditionally strong programs, but with our fan base if we just had some success on the field we would fill Lindsey Nelson. I am not saying move or rebuild the stadium, but I think things could be done to make it more aesthetically pleasing and a destination place to watch a ball game. Clearly though, baseball renovations will probably not be on the forefront of Currie's agenda when we are operating at a $4+ million deficit.

For people in the East Tennessee area, Pioneer Park for Tusculum College is incredible, they share it with the Single A Greeneville Astros, and ETSU's new stadium is very nice.

 

[buvol]

The scholarship idea is that the private schools can offer "need based" financial aid. Obviously a predominantly wealthy undergrad population raises the bar for which students qualify for need based aid (I heard that schools like Stanford that if your household income is less than $400000 your are eligible for need based money). Public schools should have some advantage with "lottery funded" in state scholarships. For example, if a baseball player gets a 33% baseball scholarship he gets 33% of the total cost of room, board, tuition and probably gets his books included. Therefore, if a full in state scholarship is deemed to be $25000 then they will get roughly $8500. If they qualify for lottery funded scholarships to cover much of the tuition then it becomes a pretty sizable scholarship. Polk when he was at Mississippi State was very upset when UGA had all of the Hope scholarship money saying it was a big advantage. Most states have some form of that now. I think a big advantage for schools like Vandy is the out of state guys. UT can't waive out of state tuition and it is really high. Therefore, if UT wants a big time out of state player they have to burn a large portion of their 11.75 scholarships on that player and hope that the in state guys can get other money. If UT comes after a solid, but not all world guy from out of state that family will have to be prepared for a serious bill. No reason (other than title IX) that they can't increase scholarships for baseball.

 

[billmynatt]

As I understand it some schools have easier standards for academic scholarships. It's hard to get one at Tennessee.

That's just BS. UT has academic scholarship money available to students who qualify for them. That's just fact. There are standards at all schools. Non-revenue sports (sports other than football and basketball where athletic schollys are full rides and not partials) athletes have the same qualification standards as does every other student.

The whining about lack of scholarship money is just an excuse. Period.

 

[BruinVol]

That's just BS. UT has academic scholarship money available to students who qualify for them. That's just fact. There are standards at all schools. Non-revenue sports (sports other than football and basketball where athletic schollys are full rides and not partials) athletes have the same qualification standards as does every other student.

The whining about lack of scholarship money is just an excuse. Period.

Dude settle down. You aren't reading the fine print my friend. Yes all schools have standards BUT all schools don't have the same standards to get academic scholarships. Some SEC schools can get in state tuition for out of state students with certain grades. If one school gives scholarships for a 3.0 while it takes a 3.5 at another that's a big difference. Call it making excuses all you want but it's true.

 

[Fullfillmer]

And on page 5 .....

Tennessee Tech 3
Florida State 1

Some really good baseball is being played in Tennessee - just not by the team coached by the dude making 675,000

that an insane amount to pay -- 6 consecutive years of awful baseball and awful recruiting ...Ugggg

 

[vol66]

And on page 5 .....

Tennessee Tech 3
Florida State 1

Some really good baseball is being played in Tennessee - just not by the team coached by the dude making 675,000

that an insane amount to pay -- 6 consecutive years of awful baseball and awful recruiting ...Ugggg

It was 450,000...which is average for the conference plus incentives, of which he only made APR and maybe 3 years of a small bump for making the SEC Tourney...the more I look at those figures the more distorted they seem...

Your overall point is well taken, but if it's true we spend more money than every SEC team not named Vanderbilt, why do they refuse to stream the games...that's nuts, makes no sense...been bothering me since it was posted.

 

[matts42012]

That's just BS. UT has academic scholarship money available to students who qualify for them. That's just fact. There are standards at all schools. Non-revenue sports (sports other than football and basketball where athletic schollys are full rides and not partials) athletes have the same qualification standards as does every other student.

The whining about lack of scholarship money is just an excuse. Period.

Your wrong bud. Serrano has said it, Jon Wilkerson has said it, many have said it. There is not an equal playing ground out there.

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

Your wrong bud. Serrano has said it, Jon Wilkerson has said it, many have said it. There is not an equal playing ground out there.

How are the other SEC schools doing it then? Arkansas's entire starting lineup is practically comprised of out of state kids, LSU has a ton of kids from out of state, once Cohen came back to Miss State they set up shop in metro-Birmingham (he's from Tuscaloosa) and picked the best kids out of central and north AL. Outside of UF and aTm, a lot of schools are winning big without homegrown talent. I can't imagine they're all wealthy or taking out massive student loans because they're on a 0.85 scholarship.

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

Dude settle down. You aren't reading the fine print my friend. Yes all schools have standards BUT all schools don't have the same standards to get academic scholarships. Some SEC schools can get in state tuition for out of state students with certain grades. If one school gives scholarships for a 3.0 while it takes a 3.5 at another that's a big difference. Call it making excuses all you want but it's true.

So again that's up to each individual school's discretion, if I'm understanding right? If I am, then that's our own damn fault and we're creating the uneven playing field by stubborn choice.

I must be dense because the family income financial aid package doesn't make sense to me. If it has to apply to all students then so be it. There are need based aid/grant packages available to all students as it is, I believe. I applied for everything possible when I chose to attend UT as an out of state student. However, even as an out of state student, I didn't qualify for anything due to my family's income (which clearly wasn't enough based on the "massive" student loan debt I graduated with). I had a fraternity brother who went to the bursar's office to apply for financial aid and when they asked him what his family did for a living or what the household income was they told him not to waste his time he wouldn't qualify (considering he was in state and his mother was a vet he shouldn't have) but regardless the money was there for someone who truly did need it.

 

[vol66]

How are the other SEC schools doing it then? Arkansas's entire starting lineup is practically comprised of out of state kids, LSU has a ton of kids from out of state, once Cohen came back to Miss State they set up shop in metro-Birmingham (he's from Tuscaloosa) and picked the best kids out of central and north AL. Outside of UF and aTm, a lot of schools are winning big without homegrown talent. I can't imagine they're all wealthy or taking out massive student loans because they're on a 0.85 scholarship.

Not to get into the middle of your argument, but I read the other day, and I will have to double check...either or both Arkansas and/or MSU are allowed to waive out of state tuition...to be honest I'm just now starting to try to wrap my head around why a school like that can do it, but we can't...I'm not saying it's a fact that I know, but it is something I'm interested in understanding better.

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

Not to get into the middle of your argument, but I read the other day, and I will have to double check...either or both Arkansas and/or MSU are allowed to waive out of state tuition...to be honest I'm just now starting to try to wrap my head around why a school like that can do it, but we can't...I'm not saying it's a fact that I know, but it is something I'm interested in understanding better.

Once again it's a school option then? And FTR, I'm not trying to argue. I don't doubt fellow SEC schools have advantages over us, it just appears it's self inflicted on our part rather than a private vs public or large endowment vs small endowment issue. It just seems to go back to the bureaucrats on the Hill not understanding the financial windfalls that come for the university as a whole, from successful athletic programs. Whether they like it or not, athletics play an integral role in the collegiate experience for regular students.

My college choice came down to 2 schools; UT, the school I grew up rooting for 850 miles away or my dad's alma mater, a small private school 2.5 hrs from home (with no football) and a major that no other school in the country offered. Sad as it may be, the decision came down to the fact that I couldn't imagine not having a football game to go to every Saturday for the next 4 years. So I ultimately chose UT and passed up being a 3rd generation alumni.

 

[vol66]

Once again it's a school option then? And FTR, I'm not trying to argue. I don't doubt fellow SEC schools have advantages over us, it just appears it's self inflicted on our part rather than a private vs public or large endowment vs small endowment issue. It just seems to go back to the bureaucrats on the Hill not understanding the financial windfalls that come for the university as a whole, from successful athletic programs. Whether they like it or not, athletics play an integral role in the collegiate experience for regular students.

My college choice came down to 2 schools; UT, the school I grew up rooting for 850 miles away or my dad's alma mater, a small private school 2.5 hrs from home (with no football) and a major that no other school in the country offered. Sad as it may be, the decision came down to the fact that I couldn't imagine not having a football game to go to every Saturday for the next 4 years. So I ultimately chose UT and passed up being a 3rd generation alumni.

I agree that it seems self inflicted or SOMETHING if the two threads with the data/charts are in the ball park of correct...or more simply put...we are doing it wrong, which was my first impression when I saw the data.

Admittedly, I don't know what I need to know, but it does at least point all of us in the direction of being able to ask some educated questions if we want to put up the effort...which I do, but again, I want to sit down with the numbers from both of those charts and see if they add up.

For instance, one set did not include Vandy, the other did.

I have a really hard time believing we spent more money on the baseball program than LSU did...that makes no sense on a couple of levels related to the charts/stats.

 

[BruinVol]

Bowlinggreenvol,

I have said a few times on here I have a cousin that is in NCAA compliance at a school not named Tennessee and he explained all this a few years back to me. If anyone has followed my post over the years I used to post that Vandy was cheating. I since found out there aren't. I didn't believe all students got the same need based money as baseball players but I now believe that. So here is what he said to me to make me best understand it.

Schools set their acedemic scholarships and or out of state tuition waivers to help boost enrollment of certain kinds of students from certain places. If a school wants to grow that makes it easier for students to attend but in Tennessees case growth isn't wanted so making it tougher to get into school and pay for it is something I think has been a plan and it has worked as the university as a hole is very healthy.

On the need based aid front which is different than another poster wants to admit some schools with massive endowments believe their money will come back to them in donations if they invest in their "needy" students. So if the family income says a Vandy student can only pay 5k of the 60k yearly cost that is all they pay and in turn they believe their graduates will that them with donations.

Could Tennesse do all this? Sure but with a healthy university we really shouldn't.

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

Bowlinggreenvol,

I have said a few times on here I have a cousin that is in NCAA compliance at a school not named Tennessee and he explained all this a few years back to me. If anyone has followed my post over the years I used to post that Vandy was cheating. I since found out there aren't. I didn't believe all students got the same need based money as baseball players but I now believe that. So here is what he said to me to make me best understand it.

Schools set their acedemic scholarships and or out of state tuition waivers to help boost enrollment of certain kinds of students from certain places. If a school wants to grow that makes it easier for students to attend but in Tennessees case growth isn't wanted so making it tougher to get into school and pay for it is something I think has been a plan and it has worked as the university as a hole is very healthy.

On the need based aid front which is different than another poster wants to admit some schools with massive endowments believe their money will come back to them in donations if they invest in their "needy" students. So if the family income says a Vandy student can only pay 5k of the 60k yearly cost that is all they pay and in turn they believe their graduates will that them with donations.

Could Tennesse do all this? Sure but with a healthy university we really shouldn't.

Well it's working for Vandy since their endowment is 3x UT's despite having an enrollment (and thus alumni base) that's 1/4 of UT's. I attended WKU for graduate school and they implemented the out of state waiver for certain areas of the country to grow the student body from a regional basis to more national. Kids from these qualifying areas pay in state tuition + 25%, which is still significantly less than OOS. It started with the metro Nashville area close to Bowling Green and has since expanded to include major metro areas across the South and lower Midwest. They use this to their advantage in basebalI and it's apparent when looking at the roster. In addition to pulling kids from middle TN, they pull a respectable number out of metro STL, Tampa and Chicago; all areas where their tuition program is in play. It's an option that applies to all students, as my wife received this tuition rate coming from Nashville. I can see a school like Miss State offering that because the state population is so small to begin with and it's a small town in a part of the country that just doesn't attract many kids outside of MS.

 

[vol66]

Well it's working for Vandy since their endowment is 3x UT's despite having an enrollment (and thus alumni base) that's 1/4 of UT's. I attended WKU for graduate school and they implemented the out of state waiver for certain areas of the country to grow the student body from a regional basis to more national. Kids from these qualifying areas pay in state tuition + 25%, which is still significantly less than OOS. It started with the metro Nashville area close to Bowling Green and has since expanded to include major metro areas across the South and lower Midwest. They use this to their advantage specifically in baseball. In addition to pulling kids from middle TN, they pull a respectable number out of metro STL, Tampa and Chicago. It's an option that applies to all students, as my wife received this tuition rate coming from Nashville. I can see a school like Miss State offering that because the state population is so small to begin with and it's a small town in a part of the country that just doesn't attract many kids outside of MS.

Why can't we do that? Not trying to be a jerk, just trying to understand, and I apologize in advance for my ignorance, but I have been trying to figure this out for at least the last couple years.

 

[BruinVol]

Why can't we do that? Not trying to be a jerk, just trying to understand, and I apologize in advance for my ignorance, but I have been trying to figure this out for at least the last couple years.

We could but in the best interest of the school we don't need to.

Does that make sense?

 

[vol66]

We could but in the best interest of the school we don't need to.

Does that make sense?

lol, I apologized in advance, just a reminder...if we start with what is best for Football, Basketball and Baseball, and the women's equivalence of those sports...can't we come to a middle ground, or is that not possible...

Let me try it a different way, as it pertains to partials...what makes us less competitive, just on scholly's than UK, UGA, MSU, Arky, Ole Miss?

 

[BruinVol]

lol, I apologized in advance, just a reminder...if we start with what is best for Football, Basketball and Baseball, and the women's equivalence of those sports...can't we come to a middle ground, or is that not possible...

Let me try it a different way, as it pertains to partials...what makes us less competitive, just on scholly's than UK, UGA, MSU, Arky, Ole Miss?

Georgias hope gets full Tuition so they shouldn't ever leave the state. Arkansas gets in state in Texas I think so that is huge. Tennessee should win at the same kind of clip as Kentucky IMO. You can't set scholarships with any sports in mind only with the vision of the student body imo.

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

Georgias hope gets full Tuition so they shouldn't ever leave the state. Arkansas gets in state in Texas I think so that is huge. Tennessee should win at the same kind of clip as Kentucky IMO. You can't set scholarships with any sports in mind only with the vision of the student body imo.

How does TN's lottery scholarship work? In FL, we had "Bright Futures" and a 3.0 GPA and 1000 SAT or 20 ACT (don't remember specifics) qualified you for 75% tuition paid. A 3.5 and 1300 SAT or 28 ACT (approximation) qualified for 100% tuition paid. Is TN's not at least 75% tuition? If so, that should be hefty enough.