Status of Tennessee Baseball

#76
#76
BruinVol said:
Yes it has to increase enrollment to offset lost money but from what I know Tennessee doesn't want increased enrollment
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Arkansas can't fill their system without out of state enrollment. That's why they target Texas students.
 
#77
#77
BruinVol said:
Yes it has to increase enrollment to offset lost money but from what I know Tennessee doesn't want increased enrollment
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Increased enrollment in out of state only. The school doesn't haven't to grow as a whole for the out of state portion to grow. That article said that 51% of Arkansas incoming FR in 2016 were out of state kids. If you constantly bring in more out of state kids at a slightly higher tuition rate then the pot will get to where it needs to be.
 
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#78
#78
bowlinggreenvol said:
Increased enrollment in out of state only. The school doesn't haven't to grow as a whole for the out of state portion to grow. That article said that 51% of Arkansas incoming FR in 2016 were out of state kids.
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That's true but they don't have to turn away AR kids to bring in out of state kids. They can't fill their institutions with just in state kids.
Populations:
AR 3M
TN 6.7M
TX 27M

UT would have to turn away instate kids to make room for out of state kids. AR needs additional enrollment so they target a neighboring state with 9x as many people with expensive tuition that can't accept all the applicants.
 
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#79
#79
bowlinggreenvol said:
Increased enrollment in out of state only. The school doesn't haven't to grow as a whole for the out of state portion to grow. That article said that 51% of Arkansas incoming FR in 2016 were out of state kids. If you constantly bring in more out of state kids at a slightly higher tuition rate then the pot will get to where it needs to be.
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Yea we hit on that last night. I would hate to a trend away from in state students. It's already hard enough for many to get into school. I know a lot of kids that have been denied that really wanted to come.
 
#80
#80
txbo said:
That's true but they don't have to turn away AR kids to bring in out of state kids. They can't fill their institutions with just in state kids.
Populations:
AR 3M
TN 6.7M
TX 27M

UT would have to turn away instate kids to make room for out of state kids. AR needs additional enrollment so they target a neighboring state with 9x as many people with expensive tuition that can't accept all the applicants.
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But that 51% number is growing. It wasn't always that, so did they not fill their numbers or did they take more marginal Arkansas kids? It sounds like Arkansas is trying to grow the entire student body and can't do it on Arkansas kids alone, rather than just maintaining status quo.
 
#81
#81
bowlinggreenvol said:
But that 51% number is growing. It wasn't always that, so did they not fill their numbers or did they take more marginal Arkansas kids? It sounds like Arkansas is trying to grow the entire student body and can't do it on Arkansas kids alone, rather than just maintaining status quo.
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BG, they absolutely can't do it with AR kids alone. That makes the tuition awards to TX with a population of 27M make sense. Additionally, TX kids can't get to UT or A&M without being Top 10% of their HS class. Even with this TX wave of kids, it's very difficult for an instate AR kid to get declined.
 
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#82
#82
txbo said:
BG, they absolutely can't do it with AR kids alone. That makes the tuition awards to TX with a population of 27M make sense. Additionally, TX kids can't get to UT or A&M without being Top 10% of their HS class. Even with this TX wave of kids, it's very difficult for an instate AR kid to get declined.
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Good talk here. I think what you will find is the schools that struggle to fill their enrollment with instate students are the ones that offer many of the breaks that make baseball programs easier to recruit to. Tenn baseball is just a victim of a healthy state school.
 
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#83
#83
BruinVol said:
Good talk here. I think what you will find is the schools that struggle to fill their enrollment with instate students are the ones that offer many of the breaks that make baseball programs easier to recruit to. Tenn baseball is just a victim of a healthy state school.
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A lot of truth there.

The corporate headquarters of Walmart is in Bentonville, AR. It's only about 30 minutes from Fayetteville. There is a lot of desire to have a quality educational system providing all the programs that larger states do. There just aren't enough students instate to make all those programs viable.

And they have a good baseball program.:)
 
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#84
#84
BruinVol said:
Good talk here. I think what you will find is the schools that struggle to fill their enrollment with instate students are the ones that offer many of the breaks that make baseball programs easier to recruit to. Tenn baseball is just a victim of a healthy state school.
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Most definitely, appreciate the discussion...looked it up...

Percentage of Out of State Students at Public Universities...

Auburn 37%

LSU 19%

MSU 24%

Bama 40%

TAMU 3%

Arkansas 35%

UF 3%

UK 21%

Ole Miss 38%

Mizzou 10%

USCe 31%

UGA 9%

UT 8%

This link doesn't include Vandy...

http://www.collegexpress.com/lists/...of-state-students-at-public-universities/360/
 
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#85
#85
#86
#86
BruinVol said:
Wow. Shows you how well Tennesse does with Instate. Thanks for posting this.
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Sure...notice that the schools with lowest out of state numbers are in recruiting hot beds except for Missouri and Tennessee...just saying...
 
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#88
#88
Oklahoma State has a similar tuition plan for Texas students as AR does.

Their baseball roster includes 17 kids from TX. Four are in the starting lineup and a host of pitchers.
 
#89
#89
edyeary said:
So, basically the scholarship situation at UT does indeed hurt them in baseball.
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I am a father of a nine year old in Knoxville. I live 10 minutes from UT.

He's doing great in school so far, but I worry about two things all of the time...

Will he be able to stay on track, just to be able to get into UT?

Will I be able to afford it?

This whole mission to be top a top 50 University...it seems great as a goal, but it excludes a lot of Tennessee kids. They get around it in football to a degree, but we still spend more than anyone on the recruiting trail for a reason.

53% of Stanford's enrollment is NOT from the state of California, they win the director's cup almost every year and academically they do pretty well too.

Just saying'...appreciate the discussion fellas, gotta run...I'll be back later, maybe we'll have a baseball coach. :)
 
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#90
#90
vol66 said:
Most definitely, appreciate the discussion...looked it up...

Percentage of Out of State Students at Public Universities...

Auburn 37%

LSU 19%

MSU 24%

Bama 40%

TAMU 3%

Arkansas 35%

UF 3%

UK 21%

Ole Miss 38%

Mizzou 10%

USCe 31%

UGA 9%

UT 8%

This link doesn't include Vandy...

http://www.collegexpress.com/lists/...of-state-students-at-public-universities/360/
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I'm surprised UF's is that low just because of kids desire to come to FL. However, a few years ago (10 maybe) the state of FL instituted a "rule" that if you graduated from a FL community college with your AA you were automatically admitted to all 4 year, state universities. I'm sure that had a large affect on getting in state kids into UF who otherwise might have never been admitted. The thing to do when I was growing up was go to Santa Fe CC in G'ville if you didn't get in to UF. Then you could party and live the college life and 2 yrs later be admitted.
 
#91
#91
vol66 said:
I am a father of a nine year old in Knoxville. I live 10 minutes from UT.

He's doing great in school so far, but I worry about two things all of the time...

Will he be able to stay on track, just to be able to get into UT?

Will I be able to afford it?

This whole mission to be top a top 50 University...it seems great as a goal, but it excludes a lot of Tennessee kids. They get around it in football to a degree, but we still spend more than anyone on the recruiting trail for a reason.

53% of Stanford's enrollment is NOT from the state of California, they win the director's cup almost every year and academically they do pretty well too.

Just saying'...appreciate the discussion fellas, gotta run...I'll be back later, maybe we'll have a baseball coach. :)
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what is your point? I think UT would do well to have a higher percentage of out-of-state students, for a variety of reasons. Eight percent is very low.
 
#92
#92
armchair said:
what is your point? I think UT would do well to have a higher percentage of out-of-state students, for a variety of reasons. Eight percent is very low.
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Why do you think it would do well to have a higher % of out of state students?
 
#93
#93
I know UT is committed to remaining the state's flagship school. And with that comes the decision to select from the best Tennessee students first. That's the administration's philosophy and the people at the capital. Obviously they are not going to turn down very competitive out-of-state students, but it is a lot harder to get in as an out-of-state student. UT has some good pipelines into certain cities, like Atlanta, Chicago, Charlotte.

I know some of the gradate programs, and the law school particularly, are seeking to increase their out-of-state numbers for a diversity purpose, but probably to get more money too. I like the fact that Tennessee picks from Tennesseans first, but I do not think it would be a bad thing if that 8% out-of-state was more like 12-15%. I have two degrees from Tennessee and I met amazing people from all over while obtaining them. In my opinion, if Tennessee wants to get to a Top 25 public university they will have to increase the enrollment and the percentage of out-of-state students.
 
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#94
#94
Maybe it's harder to get in as an out of state student today than it was 10-12 yrs ago when I was there because I don't buy it from my time. Me and a buddy from HS in FL both attended and he was dumb as rocks. He transferred in after 1 yr at a small college with a GPA barely pushing 2.0 and was admitted no questions asked. IMO UT saw $20k/year vs $10k/year and opened the gates for no other reason.
 
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#95
#95
Orange&White said:
I know UT is committed to remaining the state's flagship school. And with that comes the decision to select from the best Tennessee students first. That's the administration's philosophy and the people at the capital. Obviously they are not going to turn down very competitive out-of-state students, but it is a lot harder to get in as an out-of-state student. UT has some good pipelines into certain cities, like Atlanta, Chicago, Charlotte.

I know some of the gradate programs, and the law school particularly, are seeking to increase their out-of-state numbers for a diversity purpose, but probably to get more money too. I like the fact that Tennessee picks from Tennesseans first, but I do not think it would be a bad thing if that 8% out-of-state was more like 12-15%. I have two degrees from Tennessee and I met amazing people from all over while obtaining them. In my opinion, if Tennessee wants to get to a Top 25 public university they will have to increase the enrollment and the percentage of out-of-state students.
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I appreciate your post but surely you can see the irony in it.
 
#97
#97
edyeary said:
Reading this helped make it a little clearer for me. I know you guys tried above but this is a good summation and pretty good article. I'm not sure you can read it w/o registering. I did the free acct.

http://www.scout.com/college/tennessee/story/1782421-the-ceiling-of-tennessee-baseball
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The Vanderbilt piece still doesn't make sense to me because it's well known Dansby Swanson took out student loans to attend. All I can think of is Vandy says you "should" be able to pay for X amount based on household income so we'll give you Y amount to cover the difference and if you can't actually afford X amount due to debt or whatever then that's your problem. Clearly Swanson's family couldn't or didn't want to fork out the remaining portion because he wasn't covered 100%. However the article is saying Vandy picks up 100% of what's remaining which simply isn't true. It's still an advantage they have but I think folks need to stop spouting this hyperbole that Vandy is giving out 27 full rides because that's obviously not the case.
 
#98
#98
bowlinggreenvol said:
The Vanderbilt piece still doesn't make sense to me because it's well known Dansby Swanson took out student loans to attend. All I can think of is Vandy says you "should" be able to pay for X amount based on household income so we'll give you Y amount to cover the difference and if you can't actually afford X amount due to debt or whatever then that's your problem. Clearly Swanson's family couldn't or didn't want to fork out the remaining portion because he wasn't covered 100%. However the article is saying Vandy picks up 100% of what's remaining which simply isn't true. It's still an advantage they have but I think folks need to stop spouting this hyperbole that Vandy is giving out 27 full rides because that's obviously not the case.
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I read the article to say the student has to pay up to their ability and then the school pays what's the left.

Meaning if the family income suggest a family can afford 10 of the 60k that part is left to pay. Thus some families might choose student loans to pay that. I didn't think that story suggested full rides.
 
#99
#99
It's time to challenge Title 9 and do away with 11.7.
 
#100
#100
BruinVol said:
I read the article to say the student has to pay up to their ability and then the school pays what's the left.

Meaning if the family income suggest a family can afford 10 of the 60k that part is left to pay. Thus some families might choose student loans to pay that. I didn't think that story suggested full rides.
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That's exactly what I said. The only reason/way he took student loans is the family chose not to pay out of pocket. If his family could afford $10k and Vandy made up the other $50k he wouldn't have loans. So either he chose to pay via a student loan or the scholarship still didn't cover the difference.

May wording as far as full rides was poor. I meant that Vandy is covering the full amount difference between ability to pay and cost of attendance. Even if that's the case the only advantage it gives them is in the case of low income players. If a recruit's family is deemed able to pay $40k of the $60k then Vandy makes up the other $20k. If you can afford $40k out of pocket then you can afford to go anywhere out of state and it simply comes down to a recruit wanting to attend Vandy over another institution. A partial scholarship and OOS tuition may still be a cheaper option for a family.
 
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