stock market was up today...

#10,376
#10,376
MontyPython said:
Heh. My current put positions are sucking if that makes you happy.

We all done with COVID-19? When's that vaccine gonna be ready?
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Everything baked in right now is good news. Seems kind of unreasonable (irrational exuberance?). Even though it's obvious that earnings are going to be a disaster, as those numbers are released over the next month, the markets probably will react manically.
 
#10,378
#10,378
Dude. I listened to your FoxNews post. Fox is for idiots. The chyron doesn't reflect what the guy said. Also, the dude who made the tape, obviously, is also an idiot.

Here's what the ex-Obama official actually said:

"Over the next six months, it [the economy] will move itself from very, very bad - which is where it was in April - to very bad or, if we're lucky, just bad towards the end of this year, so I'm not that optimistic about what the overall state of the economy will be..."

So, no, Dems are not in any panic mode.
 
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#10,379
#10,379
Trump - what a buffoon. Can he not wait until after the Markets are closed to make statements?

They should know by now him speaking is never a good thing.
 
#10,380
#10,380
I chuckled...

Thursday Humor: Protestors Criticized For Looting Businesses Without Forming Private Equity Firm First

Calling for a more measured way to express opposition to police brutality, critics slammed demonstrators Thursday for recklessly looting businesses without forming a private equity firm first.

“Look, we all have the right to protest, but that doesn’t mean you can just rush in and destroy any business without gathering a group of clandestine investors to purchase it at a severely reduced price and slowly bleed it to death,” said Facebook commenter Amy Mulrain, echoing the sentiments of detractors nationwide who blasted the demonstrators for not hiring a consultant group to take stock of a struggling company’s assets before plundering.

“I understand that people are angry, but they shouldn’t just endanger businesses without even a thought to enriching themselves through leveraged buyouts and across-the-board terminations.

It’s disgusting to put workers at risk by looting. You do it by chipping away at their health benefits and eventually laying them off. There’s a right way and wrong way to do this.”

@DEFENDTHISHOUSE @red butler @midnight orange @Electric Orange @n_huffhines @MercyPercy @Orangeslice13 @NurseGoodVol @utvolpj @Cdywolfe
 
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#10,381
#10,381
Thunder Good-Oil said:
The short term traders are in the All Things Stocks thread in The Pub.
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I don't think he liked my answer about American Airlines and Norwegian Cruise Lines in the Pub...

Since this is the Politics forum, I think American is in deep trouble if Biden is elected. Do you think a TX HQ'ed company with a history of stock buybacks will get a 2nd bailout under a Dem admin or will they be made as an example?
 
#10,382
#10,382
BigOrangeMojo said:
I don't think he liked my answer about American Airlines and Norwegian Cruise Lines in the Pub...

Since this is the Politics forum, I think American is in deep trouble if Biden is elected. Do you think a TX HQ'ed company with a history of stock buybacks will get a 2nd bailout under a Dem admin or will they be made as an example?
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I don't think that a company that has used cash in the past should be punished as long as bailout money hasn't been immediately used for buy backs. Well managed companies don't just leave cash on their books with no plan. Some pay dividends (the Feds should be fine with that... they get to tax money that has already been taxed). Some use it to promote, advertise, market the business and grow revenues. Some pay down debt. Some buy capital equipment and improve or expand facilities and increase production capacity. Some buy inventory. Some buy other companies. Some will buy back their own stock. Some will invest in or reward employees. If a company's leadership responsibly used cash to buy back their own stock in 2019 and were blindsided by a pandemic, that shouldn't prevent them benefiting from a stimulus if they meet the criteria. "Bailouts" are kind of different from an economic stimulus. The details are needed. Bailouts should include some sort of conditions that are more stringent than just those attached to an economic stimulus.

Democrats can try to get votes by talking s*** about corporations, but ultimately if they don't want to destroy the economy they can't be overly hostile toward businesses. Bernie would be a disaster. Biden will do whatever his overlords tell him to do.
 
#10,383
#10,383
Thunder Good-Oil said:
I don't think that a company that has used cash in the past should be punished as long as bailout money hasn't been immediately used for buy backs. Well managed companies don't just leave cash on their books with no plan. Some pay dividends (the Feds should be fine with that... they get to tax money that has already been taxed). Some use it to promote, advertise, market the business and grow revenues. Some pay down debt. Some buy capital equipment and improve or expand facilities and increase production capacity. Some buy inventory. Some buy other companies. Some will buy back their own stock. Some will invest in or reward employees. If a company's leadership responsibly used cash to buy back their own stock in 2019 and were blindsided by a pandemic, that shouldn't prevent them benefiting from a stimulus if they meet the criteria. "Bailouts" are kind of different from an economic stimulus. The details are needed. Bailouts should include some sort of conditions that are more stringent than just those attached to an economic stimulus.

Democrats can try to get votes by talking s*** about corporations, but ultimately if they don't want to destroy the economy they can't be overly hostile toward businesses. Bernie would be a disaster. Biden will do whatever his overlords tell him to do.
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In the case of American, they arent a well run company and used buybacks/additional debt to try to lever up/prop up a failing stock price. For some airlines (such as Delta and Southwest), the CARES Act was a stimulus - for others, such as American, it was a bailout to prevent BK (We can get caught up on semantics but without it, AAL would have declared BK by the end of summer). I think by October, American will have its hand out again. The question will be should the govt bail out and prop up a failing business for the 2nd time within a year or let it go BK. I think that answer will lie with who wins in November.
 
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#10,384
#10,384
BigOrangeMojo said:
In the case of American, they arent a well run company and used buybacks/additional debt to try to lever up/prop up a failing stock price. For some airlines (such as Delta and Southwest), the CARES Act was a stimulus - for others, such as American, it was a bailout to prevent BK (We can get caught up on semantics but without it, AAL would have declared BK by the end of summer). I think by October, American will have its hand out again. The question will be should the govt bail out and prop up a failing business for the 2nd time within a year or let it go BK. I think that answer will lie with who wins in November.
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Airlines are heavily unionized. That makes a difference if Democrats are deciding.
 
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#10,389
#10,389
NorthDallas40 said:
Southwest is also HQ’d in Texas. And it doesn’t get more business friendly than Texas. Nothing to do with party politics purely an issue of corporate management
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Agree that American's issues are management related.

Bailouts are given at a federal level (and Southwest hasn't needed them), not the state level. I'm asking will a Dem President give a Texas HQ'ed airline company a bailout, especially if it took on debt to buy back stock in the midst of questionable financial results. If you answer that question "No" then that has to impact your valuation of American's stock price considering the election is probably 50/50 currently.
 
#10,390
#10,390
When interest rates are historically low and if management believes the company's stock to be undervalued, then I can't argue with buying back stock. In the midst of questionable financial results is the key phrase. If the ONGOING financial results are expected to not be questionable then management isn't necessarily making a bad call with a buy back. A pandemic coming around the bend probably wouldn't be something that's realistically going to be anticipated.
 
#10,394
#10,394
MontyPython said:
Cool. Whatever works for you. Hope you're making money. I don't daytrade.
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I don't day trade per se. When I am not flying, I am watching the market most of the day. I'll sell puts and hopefully watch them expire OTM. If they are ITM, I roll them down. It has worked in an upward moving market, but April was disastrous. I'll spend the rest of the year digging out, but if the options I have out expire right now I am 80% of the way back.
 
#10,395
#10,395
Rioting scattered all across the country right on the heels of the country slowly opening up after the China Virus shutdown... Seems like a perfect recipe for a Monday morning market rally.
 
#10,397
#10,397
The current market levels simply point out the fact that the market isn't a market at all. It is simply a mechanism the fed and the govt use to launder its phoney money hot off the electronic magic money presses.

If it were really a market it would be a shadow of it’s current levels in the face of today's economic, societal and political realities.

The taxpayers (current and future ones) are propping it up.
 
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#10,398
#10,398
agVOL90 said:
The current market levels simply point out the fact that the market isn't a market at all. It is simply a mechanism the fed and the govt use to launder its phoney money hot off the electronic magic money presses.

If it were really a market it would be a shadow of it’s current levels in the face of today's economic, societal and political realities.

The taxpayers (current and future ones) are propping it up.
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The Market is forward looking. All of the bad news had already been priced in.

Were you asleep during the massive sell off?

It is now pricing in the good news in anticipation of the economy re-opening.
 
#10,399
#10,399
agVOL90 said:
The current market levels simply point out the fact that the market isn't a market at all. It is simply a mechanism the fed and the govt use to launder its phoney money hot off the electronic magic money presses.

If it were really a market it would be a shadow of it’s current levels in the face of today's economic, societal and political realities.

The taxpayers (current and future ones) are propping it up.
Click to expand...
And.... The Market gives ZERO f@cks about “societal” issues.
 
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