Stop judging coaches by tourney success

[golfballs]

I see that you’re another of the clueless posters when it comes to the economics of coach’s salaries.

Drew would have been fired from Baylor long ago if their administration’s opinions were as bad as yours.

Tennessee’s admin 100% would have fired Drew when the NCAA found major violations. But Drew had just made an elite 8 w his shady dealings. Baylor’s athletic department is undoubtedly the biggest cesspool in college sports

 

[brockytop]

Rick Barnes changed jobs in that time span and took over a mess left by Donnie Tyndall, a cheater. You also fail to mention that in that same to frame Drew has been popped for cheating. I’d take Barnes everyday over a shitstain like Scott Drew

I’m not one bit surprised.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

Here’s some economics for ya: Baylor’s getting a helluva lot better ROI from a winning perspective than TN is paying RB $5 million. But you go ahead and be a Barnes Blower, I don’t care.

Not necessarily. Had TN not ponied up another $1.5mm for Barnes the program would have been torn to the ground and yet another rebuild would commence. Instead they are getting publicity worth far more. There would have been far less exposure minus CRB over the last 2 years.

 

[hog88]

Lots of wins. Barnes might have the best SECT record of any TN coach ever.

Means nothing without winning the final game of the tourney.

 

[VolGee4]

Not necessarily. Had TN not ponied up another $1.5mm for Barnes the program would have been torn to the ground and yet another rebuild would commence. Instead they are getting publicity worth far more. There would have been far less exposure minus CRB over the last 2 years.

Yep, the post you responded to is a very simplistic way of thinking. Baylor’s arena seats just over 10k. TBA seats almost 20k. So, Barnes’ raise can be paid for in just maintaining ticket sales along with continued revenue from making the tournament.

Scott Drew is not the coach at UT, so in order for him to be hired, UT would have to offer an incentive (i.e. much more money). Based on history, he probably says no. So, if Barnes leaves, UT most likely finds a midmajor type coach. That coach most likely gets a salary of roughly 2.5, and you gamble a bit at whether the new hire will continue selling out TBA and getting to the tournament.

 

[BruinVol]

If you look at Barnes overall record and body of work you would judge him to be a very solid top of the “good coaches” tier. Not good enough to be in the elite coaches tier though.
you really wouldn’t need to even look into the tourney record to come to that conclusion

 

[hog88]

An extreme minority of coaches win the championships. Barnes actually has one that came shortly after starting off with smoldering dumpster embers. TN is now practically living in the top 25.

He’s got 1 regular season co-championship that’s it In 6 seasons. Oats already has more SEC banners than Barnes.

 

[hog88]

Rick Barnes changed jobs in that time span and took over a mess left by Donnie Tyndall, a cheater. You also fail to mention that in that same to frame Drew has been popped for cheating. I’d take Barnes everyday over a shitstain like Scott Drew

Barnes is a good coach, just not a great coach and his tourney performance is fair game for criticism.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

Means nothing without winning the final game of the tourney.

Sure are a lot of posters b****ing about Barnes not getting to the 2nd weekend in the NCAAT if it doesn’t matter how deep the tourney runs are. TN has only been to the SECT finals 5 times since it was rebooted in 1979. Devoe won 2 games with the double-by and won it. Barnes (2x), Pearl, and the Houstons made the finals but the other 5 TN coaches failed to get that far.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

Barnes is a good coach, just not a great coach and his tourney performance is fair game for criticism.

CRB may not be a great coach (that’s subjective... he will be in the HoF), but he has the TN basketball program in the best shape that it’s been in since Ray Mears and Stu Aberdeen were courtside in orange blazers. Pearl didn’t get his one EE and SEC championship without also wrecking the program.

 

[TheMagnificantOne]

 

[SGMVols]

I see that you’re another of the clueless posters when it comes to the economics of coach’s salaries.

Drew would have been fired from Baylor long ago if their administration’s opinions were as bad as yours.

Drew won 21 games his first three years at Baylor. Not 21 per year, 21 total. There’s zero chance he would’ve seen year 4 at UT with that record, regardless of the circumstances he inherited. Heck we have people here who hold it against Barnes for not making the tournament the first two years despite being the third head coach in three years at UT.

 

[Tnphil]

Noticed UT finished 42nd in the Final Coaches Poll....1 spot behind Memphis..

 

[NighthawkVol]

I remember arguing this years ago defending Cal and I got laughed at

It renders the regular season meaningless and leaves the championship determination up to single-game flukes rather than long-haul success. Fans really don’t care about the basketball regular season unless they’re real die-heads. Average fans only start caring about the sport in March. Contrast that to football, when opening weekend is huge and it stays heavily followed until this end. Much (not all) of that has to do with the fact that basketball’s postseason marginalizes its regular season.

 

[calban]

CRB may not be a great coach (that’s subjective... he will be in the HoF), but he has the TN basketball program in the best shape that it’s been in since Ray Mears and Stu Aberdeen were courtside in orange blazers. Pearl didn’t get his one EE and SEC championship without also wrecking the program.

And that's okay with a large part of the fanbase. You're okay with a decent coach that wins about 20 a year regular season, remains a fringe top 25 contender and whose ceiling in the tournament is a SW16. Why so much grief for those who think we can have more?

 

[bleedingTNorange]

And that's okay with a large part of the fanbase. You're okay with a decent coach that wins about 20 a year regular season, remains a fringe top 25 contender and whose ceiling in the tournament is a SW16. Why so much grief for those who think we can have more?

Because just a few years ago most of those same folks were begging to have the bolded?

 

[SlyStone]

Yep, the post you responded to is a very simplistic way of thinking. Baylor’s arena seats just over 10k. TBA seats almost 20k. So, Barnes’ raise can be paid for in just maintaining ticket sales along with continued revenue from making the tournament.

Scott Drew is not the coach at UT, so in order for him to be hired, UT would have to offer an incentive (i.e. much more money). Based on history, he probably says no. So, if Barnes leaves, UT most likely finds a midmajor type coach. That coach most likely gets a salary of roughly 2.5, and you gamble a bit at whether the new hire will continue selling out TBA and getting to the tournament.

Unless the Well runs dry of 5 star potential one and done's I see Coach Barnes retiring from here. Then again imagine if he had gotten that UCLA job. Wonder if could have gotten them as far as Cronin did?

 

[calban]

Because just a few years ago most of those same folks were begging to have the bolded?

I realize that Barnes will be here at least until the end of his contract and will most likely be defined by the bolded portions you mention. I however have no problem with people who think the program could have more and I certainly don't think Barnes is above criticism.

 

[LittleCat]

Unless the Well runs dry of 5 star potential one and done's I see Coach Barnes retiring from here. Then again imagine if he had gotten that UCLA job. Wonder if could have gotten them as far as Cronin did?

I doubt Cronin expected to make the run they did. It took Juzang playing out of his mind along with some bad games from Bama and Michigan. But that is what March is all about. Its easy to play loose and free in December. When it's win or go home it's a completely different game.

 

[hog88]

CRB may not be a great coach (that’s subjective... he will be in the HoF), but he has the TN basketball program in the best shape that it’s been in since Ray Mears and Stu Aberdeen were courtside in orange blazers. Pearl didn’t get his one EE and SEC championship without also wrecking the program.

I don't want CRB fired but I think it's time to start planning his exit. In a perfect world it would be an orderly retirement with him having input on who his successor is and helping in the transition.

 

[VolsSportsFan]

From the beginning my expectation of Barnes was he was going to come in, stablize the program and leave it on solid ground when he left for the next guy to build off. And it looks like that is exactly what he's going to do so in the end I won't be able to complain that much. Expectations do change and yes I'd rather him make a deep NCAAT run and I certainly think he's earned some criticism, but if the best he does is getting us back to a regular NCAAT team and gets recruiting to a high level then I can live with that. It will be up to the next guy to take the next step and hopefully they will be up to the challenge.

 

[brockytop]

If you look at Barnes overall record and body of work you would judge him to be a very solid top of the “good coaches” tier. Not good enough to be in the elite coaches tier though.
you really wouldn’t need to even look into the tourney record to come to that conclusion

Exactly. Very similar to Lon Kruger IMO.

 

[brockytop]

Yep, the post you responded to is a very simplistic way of thinking. Baylor’s arena seats just over 10k. TBA seats almost 20k. So, Barnes’ raise can be paid for in just maintaining ticket sales along with continued revenue from making the tournament.

Scott Drew is not the coach at UT, so in order for him to be hired, UT would have to offer an incentive (i.e. much more money). Based on history, he probably says no. So, if Barnes leaves, UT most likely finds a midmajor type coach. That coach most likely gets a salary of roughly 2.5, and you gamble a bit at whether the new hire will continue selling out TBA and getting to the tournament.

Evidently you’re to simple to grasp that I stated from a “winning perspective“. Hell, any decent coach could be at TN and win the economic battle against the likes of Baylor based on seats sold.

 

[VolGee4]

Evidently you’re to simple to grasp that I stated from a “winning perspective“. Hell, any decent coach could be at TN and win the economic battle against the likes of Baylor based on seats sold.

Yea, yea, yea...if you want to live in a fantasy world. It’s all about economics. Winning is part of that equation.

I guess you are too young to know about Wade Houston, Buzz Peterson, Cuonzo Martin, and Donnie Tyndall.

Link below of attendance year by year. UT fell outside the top 10 in 2014 and fell to 20th after being top 5 under Pearl. It took Barnes a couple of years to get back to top 5. Down 5,000 fans from lowest point back up to top. Over a full season, that’s real money. But, hey, Barnes doesn’t win enough, and we live in a fantasy world.

NCAA Men's Basketball Attendance

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

I don't want CRB fired but I think it's time to start planning his exit. In a perfect world it would be an orderly retirement with him having input on who his successor is and helping in the transition.

We have eight ex-coaches, all living, and none of them are really welcome plus comfortable hanging around the program. Devoe is the closest, but even that is a bit awkward. Having Barnes around as a program ambassador is the ideal scenario. Even if it’s only at the other end of the occasional phone call on TN’s behalf. It’s actually kind of embarrassing how much coaching carnage there is in TN’s history. We are Fired Coaches U and Coaches Failure Money State.