Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA)

FWIW, it's not practical to sue everyone that illegally downloads music. It's also not practical to shut down websites that have posted pictures of Mario or used a song as background music without consent. SOPA/PIPA is horrible. What's worse is that the politicians that sponsor this bill have absolutely no idea how the internet works, and they seem to be pretty proud of that fact.
 
You're talking about it as if you are a lawyer. I want to talk about it from a philosophical standpoint. Why is copying a painting stealing (to the point that it should be protected) but copying the Croc shoe design is not stealing?

I don't see why there is a distinction. I recognize that there is a distinction under the law, but I don't get the reasoning as to why.

Intellectual property comes in many forms.

The distinction is that copyright protects exact replications of artistic/literary creations. So the blueprints for Crocs could be copyrighted. It signifies authorship and allows the author to control distribution of that specific creation in that exact form.

Patents protect inventions/creations/ideas. Patents are much stronger than copyrights as they protect the underlying idea and knowledge on which products are created. As a result they are much more difficult to obtain.

Trademarks protect indicators of the source of a product or service. In a sense they protect both the owner and the customer since it is a way to ensure the origin of a given product or service.

So, with the case of Crocs. They are a design that was not sufficiently non-obvious to merit patent protection (I assume). Someone therefore can closely copy them - just like anyone could copy a new McDonalds sandwich. The non-obviousness is critical since you are protecting the idea itself.

The name and logo Crocs is protectable since it identifies a particular manufacturer (gets to your fraud concern) and in effect provides the consumer with some assurance that the product is legit and who is liable for the product.

They are all based on the notion that intellectual property is owned by the creator and should therefore be afforded protection. Since the forms of intellectual property are different so to are the forms of protection. In all cases the creator has:
1) the option to pursue protection or not (make it public domain)

2) the burden of policing the use of their work.
 
Learn the difference between patent and copyright laws and the intentions behind what each are supposed to protect.

And if the Croc design being copied is protected by a patent, then they are both infringements.

Good grief. I understand the difference legally. I am presenting a philosophical question. Why is one stealing and the other isn't?
 
And you still haven't explained how you are going to make your investment back on my great movie script that is not going to be protected by copyright laws.

I'm not in the movie business, so I'm not sure I could ever give a satisfactory answer. All I know is people will find a way to make movies. We are protecting the industry tradition. We aren't necessarily protecting creativity or profits. The technology required to make movies is becoming more and more available. I think movies that require a big budget are going the way of the dodo.
 
Intellectual property comes in many forms.

The distinction is that copyright protects exact replications of artistic/literary creations. So the blueprints for Crocs could be copyrighted. It signifies authorship and allows the author to control distribution of that specific creation in that exact form.

So I can copy the Mona Lisa and put a mustache on it?
 
Yep. In fact, a lot of people make money off of parodies.

At what point is the parody too close to the original? Why isn't a parody considered to be stealing? I really don't get this stuff, and everyone seems to accept it.
 
So I can copy the Mona Lisa and put a mustache on it?

I believe you can copy it anyway since copyright protection would be expired.

The extent of exactness is a question for the courts. See cases of sampling and the CCR vs. John Fogarty case.

What is really meant by exact is that the "expression" itself (song, painting, book) is protected not the idea behind it (patent).
 
At what point is the parody too close to the original? Why isn't a parody considered to be stealing? I really don't get this stuff, and everyone seems to accept it.

If I paint my own version of the Mona Lisa then it is my creation. If I photoshop a mustache on then it may be deemed there is insufficient change.

Overall, the underlying philosophy is that since it is my creation - I control the use of it. Exceptions (some parodies for example) are more practical exceptions than philosophically different positions.
 
I guess we'll never agree. If the law doesn't foster creativity I see no point in it. My reasoning is we are leaving it up to government to choose which profitable ideas will be protected and which will not. I don't like giving government arbitrary power like that. They'll do something stupid with it.
 
Good grief. I understand the difference legally. I am presenting a philosophical question. Why is one stealing and the other isn't?

In short, they are both stealing. The difference lies within the mechanisms available to obtain an injunction against them.
 
I guess we'll never agree. If the law doesn't foster creativity I see no point in it. My reasoning is we are leaving it up to government to choose which profitable ideas will be protected and which will not. I don't like giving government arbitrary power like that. They'll do something stupid with it.

Not true at all unless you believe in a conspiracy between the patent office arbitrarily handing out patents based on government intervention.

By the way, forefathers thought protecting IP was important enough to put it in the constitution.
 
I guess we'll never agree. If the law doesn't foster creativity I see no point in it. My reasoning is we are leaving it up to government to choose which profitable ideas will be protected and which will not. I don't like giving government arbitrary power like that. They'll do something stupid with it.

1) Why should the law foster creativity? Why isn't protecting someone's property sufficient? There is also considerable research showing that patent protection actually moves products into the market better than no patent protection (for scientific discovery)

2) The government isn't choosing in the case of copyright - you write something, you can copyright it. Hell, this post is copyrightable. The government doesn't decide. With patents it is different but see #1 above.

Most importantly - you can choose NOT to copyright it. Individuals make this decision. Do they want to protect their work or not. If not, no one is saying you have to copyright it.

3) It is not arbitrary.
 
1) Why should the law foster creativity? Why isn't protecting someone's property sufficient? There is also considerable research showing that patent protection actually moves products into the market better than no patent protection (for scientific discovery)

2) The government isn't choosing in the case of copyright - you write something, you can copyright it. Hell, this post is copyrightable. The government doesn't decide. With patents it is different but see #1 above.

Most importantly - you can choose NOT to copyright it. Individuals make this decision. Do they want to protect their work or not. If not, no one is saying you have to copyright it.

3) It is not arbitrary.

It's not real property. If IP is real property then we are all thieves, all day, every day. There are very few original ideas.

Who decides whether or not copyrights and patents should be upheld?

If IP is real property, you should not have to copyright it.
 
It's not real property. If IP is real property then we are all thieves, all day, every day. There are very few original ideas.

Who decides whether or not copyrights and patents should be upheld?

If IP is real property, you should not have to copyright it.

So you don't believe intellectual property should be protected by law?

I can certainly see arguments for the relative strength or weakness of IP protection regimes. However to claim it is not property and therefore deserves no legal protection is extreme IMHO.
 
Yeah, I'm against it.

I'm going to have to get some serious reading done on this, because I am completely unsatisfied with my ability to verbalize my position. Probably start with Against Intellectual Monopoly.
 
Yeah, I'm against it.

I'm going to have to get some serious reading done on this, because I am completely unsatisfied with my ability to verbalize my position. Probably start with Against Intellectual Monopoly.

If that is a book, I would assume the authors are smart enough to make it freely available:)
 
If that is a book, I would assume the authors are smart enough to make it freely available:)

Here is the author's website where you can download each chapter free of charge. I don't even think they need to do that. I would be fine with them saying "We're not going to go after anybody that copies our work, but we're not going to make it readily available for copy". But they went the next step and made it readily available.

Against Intellectual Monopoly
 
Movie companies or music companies don't make their property readily available to copy. Technology just adapted to copy those things.
 
Movie companies or music companies don't make their property readily available to copy. Technology just adapted to copy those things.

This is one of the main reasons why protecting IP is a pipe dream. We can't do it. Piracy will only improve its tactics from here. We can prevent widespread copyright infringement (like Miramax stealing Paramount's IP), but we can't prevent individuals from downloading free copies. It's never going to happen.
 
I agree, which is why this bill should be killed. I think that, only those trying to make money from stealing intellectual property should be punished. Like a counterfeiting company or a website that you have to pay to view. Even websites that generate ad revenue could be sued. An individual that downloads songs or movies for personal use? Chances are, that individual isn't going to pay money for the music or movies anyways.
 
I agree, which is why this bill should be killed. I think that, only those trying to make money from stealing intellectual property should be punished. Like a counterfeiting company or a website that you have to pay to view. Even websites that generate ad revenue could be sued. An individual that downloads songs or movies for personal use? Chances are, that individual isn't going to pay money for the music or movies anyways.

so if their intent is to hurt the movie/music company that's ok as long as they don't profit off their actions?
 
I agree, which is why this bill should be killed. I think that, only those trying to make money from stealing intellectual property should be punished. Like a counterfeiting company or a website that you have to pay to view. Even websites that generate ad revenue could be sued. An individual that downloads songs or movies for personal use? Chances are, that individual isn't going to pay money for the music or movies anyways.

So going to a record store and stealing a cd that I would not have bought = bad

But illegally downloading a cd that I would not have bought = no problem?

I realize that they will likely not go after after the individual downloading the song but you are ok with this theft and believe he should be legally allowed to download the song?

Should they be able to go after the website that allows people to illegally download songs even if it is a free service that generates no ad revenue?
 

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