Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA)

#177
#177
Also, what about my authorship question. Why is it fraud if I claim to author someone else's work if they really have no ownership rights?
 
#178
#178
volinbham said:
1) there is an underlying reason for the law

2) there is a distinction in public/private

3) inability to completely enforce does not negate #1 above.

In my land example I pointed out that you can't completely enforce trespassing but it's still a law. Why?
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Land is real property. It is enforceable because I can chase you off. I can aim my 12-gauge at you. I can put a fence up. I can put up security cameras. Etc.
 
#179
#179
volinbham said:
Also, what about my authorship question. Why is it fraud if I claim to author someone else's work if they really have no ownership rights?
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Cause you didn't author it. That's why it's fraud. It doesn't matter if someone else lays claim to it. Your claim is fraudulent.
 
#180
#180
nbakerld said:
Cause you didn't author it. That's why it's fraud. It doesn't matter if someone else lays claim to it. Your claim is fraudulent.
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What is the legal basis? The work is not property that can be controlled so why is the authorship property?
 
#181
#181
nbakerld said:
Land is real property. It is enforceable because I can chase you off. I can aim my 12-gauge at you. I can put a fence up. I can put up security cameras. Etc.
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Yes it is enforceable but so are copyrights.

If you aren't protecting 24/7 it can people use it? It doesn't hurt you.
 
#182
#182
volinbham said:
Yes it is enforceable but so are copyrights.

If you aren't protecting 24/7 it can people use it? It doesn't hurt you.
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Copyright is not enforceable. Virtually everybody you and I know has illegally downloaded something. It's less enforceable than the war on drugs, and we can't even keep those out of prison.
 
#183
#183
nbakerld said:
Copyright is not enforceable. Virtually everybody you and I know has illegally downloaded something. It's less enforceable than the war on drugs, and we can't even keep those out of prison.
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Virtually everyone I know has trespassed on private property.
 
#186
#186
Your answer on fraud is the exact answer you reject for copyright. You've basically said it's fraud because the law says it's fraud.
 
#187
#187
volinbham said:
Both.
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Well I don't think most people you know have done the first since they were 10 years old, and with regard to the latter....that's not illegal unless you've been asked not to step on their property. I mean, maybe it is in a sense, but no court will uphold a punishment.
 
#188
#188
nbakerld said:
Well I don't think most people you know have done the first since they were 10 years old, and with regard to the latter....that's not illegal unless you've been asked not to step on their property. I mean, maybe it is in a sense, but no court will uphold a punishment.
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difficult to enforce?
 
#190
#190
"While we believe that online piracy by foreign websites is a serious problem that requires a serious legislative response, we will not support legislation that reduces freedom of expression, increases cybersecurity risk, or undermines the dynamic, innovative global Internet," the statement read in part.

The White House statement went on to say, however, that the Obama Administration believes "online piracy is a real problem that harms the American economy" and that 2012 should see the passage of narrower legislation that targets the source of foreign copyright infringement.

The letter also highlighted the following four points:
Any effort to combat online piracy must guard against the risk of online censorship of lawful activity and must not inhibit innovation by our dynamic businesses large and small. [...] We must avoid creating new cybersecurity risks or disrupting the underlying architecture of the Internet. [...] That is why the Administration calls on all sides to work together to pass sound legislation this year that provides prosecutors and rights holders new legal tools to combat online piracy originating beyond U.S. borders [...] We expect and encourage all private parties, including both content creators and Internet platform providers working together, to adopt voluntary measures and best practices to reduce online piracy.
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This is not the end of the debate, the White House statement emphasized. "Moving forward, we will continue to work with Congress on a bipartisan basis on legislation that provides new tools needed in the global fight against piracy and counterfeiting, while vigorously defending an open Internet based on the values of free expression, privacy, security and innovation," the letter also read.

White House Will Not Support SOPA, PIPA
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Good move by the POTUS.
 
#195
#195
vols4sure said:
Agree with obama's statement.

Selling foreign counterfeit goods does not harm the economy? Rationale?
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He's specifically addressing pirating websites like The Pirate Bay.

Contrary to popular (and, frankly, ignorant) belief, people who pirate very likely were never true potential customers in the first place, because they had no intent to ever buy the product- if they don't pirate it, they were absolutely not going to otherwise buy it. In the case of music, they'd just look at other bands or not listen to who they were going to download at all.

Their downloading is also not comparable to thievery, because they're not taking a product and depriving someone else of it's use (like jacking a DVD from Wal-Mart). The downloaded files are merely copies. There is absolutely no truthful quantifiable loss from people downloading a set of files off of the internet. To believe that everyone downloading a copy of a song off of the internet is crippling the economy is hilarious.

Broad threats to the internet like this one are horrifying. What we've got is a pair of industries spearheading an effort to keep things their way by lobbying the government and spitting in the face of true capitalism. Music and movie consumers want different distribution systems that those industries don't want to provide- see the successes of pay-what-you-want albums like Radiohead's In Rainbows and services like Netflix and Spotify.

This bill is 100% about the RIAA and MPAA wanting to cling to making mountains of cheap garbage while encouraging the government to help them wipe out their competition and force the crap on consumers.
 
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#196
#196
Very astute post.

I would disagree with a small part, I have not paid for music in years. If I didn't have the ability to pirate music, I would probably still be purchasing CD's, but not nearly as many and I presume the prices wouldn't be so high. The only benefit to purchasing those any more is FLAC, so if you're an audiophile or have some use for it.

Major record labels are dinosaurs, though. I played in a few bands throughout the years, did some gigs as stand-in with bass and guitar and have had a number of years exposure to production on a small scale. Artists have nothing to lose if their music is pirated. When you buy a CD, damn near all of that money goes to the retail store you bought it from then the production costs and label expenses, barely any of it makes it back to the artist.

Major labels have long been viewed by artists as a necessary evil and threatening to original creativity, but the only way to reach a broad audience. That's simply not the case anymore, a webcam and a good microphone has nearly the same level of market exposure that a major label used to be able to afford someone.

Free exchange of information and media is already here.
 
#197
#197
milohimself said:
Very astute post.

I would disagree with a small part, I have not paid for music in years. If I didn't have the ability to pirate music, I would probably still be purchasing CD's, but not nearly as many and I presume the prices wouldn't be so high. The only benefit to purchasing those any more is FLAC, so if you're an audiophile or have some use for it.

Major record labels are dinosaurs, though. I played in a few bands throughout the years, did some gigs as stand-in with bass and guitar and have had a number of years exposure to production on a small scale. Artists have nothing to lose if their music is pirated. When you buy a CD, damn near all of that money goes to the retail store you bought it from then the production costs and label expenses, barely any of it makes it back to the artist.

Major labels have long been viewed by artists as a necessary evil and threatening to original creativity, but the only way to reach a broad audience. That's simply not the case anymore, a webcam and a good microphone has nearly the same level of market exposure that a major label used to be able to afford someone.

Free exchange of information and media is already here.
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Along those lines:
4788891305_c9eecd1fdd.jpg
 
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