Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA)

#101
#101
volinbham said:
But it's cool if I do that right? I should be able to build a website, pirate people's work and sell it for $.25 per song and not compensate the artists? They can go on tour if they want (which will help me make even more money).
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Yeah. I'm fine with that.

Crocs emerged in the market place and within 2 weeks every mall had kiosks with knockoff imitations. In principle this is the exact same thing as copying and selling his CD. Why don't we have laws protecting Crocs? Do you consider generic brands to be stealing?
 
#102
#102
volinbham said:
I'll get a domain name very similar to his. Use pictures of him, claim to be him, sell his material. Tough titties Louis - get your butt on tour.
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Claiming to be him is fraudulent and that is outside the scope of copyright laws.
 
#103
#103
volinbham said:
Oh he says it - well then that seals it. People shouldn't be able to protect their work.
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I'm not appealing to him as a higher authority on the matter. I'm saying maybe his logic and reasoning will appeal to you. You probably didn't watch it, though.
 
#104
#104
Hey nbakerld - back to the movie example.

I am a poor artist and have just written the greatest movie script ever written. You are an executive at a major studio. I come to you and ask you to pay for the production of my movie (hundreds of millions of dollars) and in return I will give you 99% of all proceeds. The only catch is that I do not believe in copyright laws and want the movie to be freely available for all to copy, reproduce, and publicly display (i.e., the exclusive rights of copyright).

Do you invest? If you do, how do you plan to make money on the movie?
 
#105
#105
vols4sure said:
Hey nbakerld - back to the movie example.

I am a poor artist and have just written the greatest movie script ever written. You are an executive at a major studio. I come to you and ask you to pay for the production of my movie (hundreds of millions of dollars) and in return I will give you 99% of all proceeds. The only catch is that I do not believe in copyright laws and want the movie to be freely available for all to copy, reproduce, and publicly display (i.e., the exclusive rights of copyright).

Do you invest? If you do, how do you plan to make money on the movie?
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Yes there will still be investment, but you have to consider that margins change. The author whose interview I posted does have a publisher. He writes into his contract that copyright laws do not apply, and they still agree to invest.
 
#106
#106
nbakerld said:
Yes there will still be investment, but you have to consider that margins change. The author whose interview I posted does have a publisher. He writes into his contract that copyright laws do not apply, and they still agree to invest.
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How are you going to make money though? I can't even prevent the coffee boy on set from taking a copy straight from editing and giving it to another studio for them to do whatever they wish with it.
 
#107
#107
vols4sure said:
How are you going to make money though? I can't even prevent the coffee boy on set from taking a copy straight from editing and giving it to another studio for them to do whatever they wish with it.
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Yes you can. Haven't you ever signed a non-compete, non-circumvent agreement? How does the coffee boy get a copy in the first place?
 
#108
#108
nbakerld said:
Yeah. I'm fine with that.

Crocs emerged in the market place and within 2 weeks every mall had kiosks with knockoff imitations. In principle this is the exact same thing as copying and selling his CD. Why don't we have laws protecting Crocs? Do you consider generic brands to be stealing?
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There are laws protecting them and if they were exact copies and used the Croc name then it was violation. It is up to Crocs to pursue legal action.
 
#109
#109
volinbham said:
There are laws protecting them and if they were exact copies and used the Croc name then it was violation. It is up to Crocs to pursue legal action.
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I don't understand. They copy the exact same design, put a different logo on it, and it's not stealing? So if I take the Louis CK album, and put a different cover on it, I'm good?
 
#110
#110
Okay Baker - say I get copies of your wife's poetry. I publish it and it sells millions. I don't give her or you a dime. I don't even give her credit or use her name so there is no proof she's the author (until she has to make an effort to support the claim)

That's cool?
 
#111
#111
volinbham said:
Okay Baker - say I get copies of your wife's poetry. I publish it and it sells millions. I don't give her or you a dime. I don't even give her credit or use her name so there is no proof she's the author (until she has to make an effort to support the claim)

That's cool?
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It's not cool cause you would be guilty of fraud, and you would still be liable outside of copyright laws. If you did all that while attributing them to my wife, then I am forever grateful. You know why? You built her brand. She didn't have the cajones to build it like you did, but now she can capitalize on her famous reputation. She can make money as a public speaker, she can easily make money on future writings. None of this was available to her before.
 
#112
#112
nbakerld said:
I don't understand. They copy the exact same design, put a different logo on it, and it's not stealing? So if I take the Louis CK album, and put a different cover on it, I'm good?
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First, Croc would have had to seek protection for the design. The shoe is not copyrightable. It is only patentable if it is novel and non-obvious.

However, they could trademark the name and logo which would be protected.

Someone that makes Croc knock offs would presumably build their own molds and manufacture their own products.

If patented they they could pursue legal action. Likely not patentable for lack of non-obviousness.

I can sell shoes that are identical to Nike but I cannot put the swoosh on there since it is trademarked (sign of a particular manufacturer).
 
#113
#113
nbakerld said:
It's not cool cause you would be guilty of fraud, and you would still be liable outside of copyright laws. If you did all that while attributing them to my wife, then I am forever grateful. You know why? You built her brand. She didn't have the cajones to build it like you did, but now she can capitalize on her famous reputation. She can make money as a public speaker, she can easily make money on future writings. None of this was available to her before.
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Where's the fraud? I don't claim them as my own - I just publish a book of poetry with no author attribution.

You'd honestly not care if I simply put her name on it?
 
#114
#114
volinbham said:
First, Croc would have had to seek protection for the design. The shoe is not copyrightable. It is only patentable if it is novel and non-obvious.

However, they could trademark the name and logo which would be protected.

Someone that makes Croc knock offs would presumably build their own molds and manufacture their own products.

If patented they they could pursue legal action. Likely not patentable for lack of non-obviousness.

I can sell shoes that are identical to Nike but I cannot put the swoosh on there since it is trademarked (sign of a particular manufacturer).
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You're talking about it as if you are a lawyer. I want to talk about it from a philosophical standpoint. Why is copying a painting stealing (to the point that it should be protected) but copying the Croc shoe design is not stealing?

I don't see why there is a distinction. I recognize that there is a distinction under the law, but I don't get the reasoning as to why.
 
#115
#115
nbakerld said:
Yes you can. Haven't you ever signed a non-compete, non-circumvent agreement? How does the coffee boy get a copy in the first place?
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He is a coffee delivery boy working for Starbucks. He hasn't signed crap. Even if he had, you going to sue the coffee boy and get awarded $100 dollars for violating a non-compete?

How are you going to stop the other movie studio that obtained the copy from showing the movie in theaters they own for $1 because they don't have to pay any royalties?
 
#116
#116
nbakerld said:
You're talking about it as if you are a lawyer. I want to talk about it from a philosophical standpoint. Why is copying a painting stealing (to the point that it should be protected) but copying the Croc shoe design is not stealing?

I don't see why there is a distinction. I recognize that there is a distinction under the law, but I don't get the reasoning as to why.
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The croc shoe designs are protected.
 
#117
#117
volinbham said:
Where's the fraud? I don't claim them as my own - I just publish a book of poetry with no author attribution.

You'd honestly not care if I simply put her name on it?
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You aren't even talking about copyright law at this point. If she can't prove she is the author, then copyright law does not apply. If she can prove that she's the author, then you just made her famous. Thanks.
 
#118
#118
vols4sure said:
The croc shoe designs are protected.
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Then why were they copied? Why does everything get copied? Yeah, they aren't exact copies, but where do you draw the line? If I put a mustache on the Mona Lisa (pretend it's protected), then it's not a copy? At what point is it different enough that it's not stealing? The laws are so arbitrary and subjective.
 
#119
#119
nbakerld said:
Then why were they copied? Why does everything get copied? Yeah, they aren't exact copies, but where do you draw the line? If I put a mustache on the Mona Lisa (pretend it's protected), then it's not a copy? At what point is it different enough that it's not stealing? The laws are so arbitrary and subjective.
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That is an entirely different argument of where lines and boundaries should be drawn. However, to say and argue that intellectual property should not be protectable at all is asinine.
 
#120
#120
nbakerld said:
Then why were they copied? Why does everything get copied? Yeah, they aren't exact copies, but where do you draw the line? If I put a mustache on the Mona Lisa (pretend it's protected), then it's not a copy? At what point is it different enough that it's not stealing? The laws are so arbitrary and subjective.
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Why do people steal when it is against the law? Why aren't all thieves prosecuted?
 
#121
#121
vols4sure said:
That is an entirely different argument of where lines and boundaries should be drawn. However, to say and argue that intellectual property should not be protectable at all is asinine.
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Hmm, not sure at all why it's a different conversation. Maybe that kind of reasoning is why we have thousands of flawed and unenforceable laws on the books.
 
#122
#122
vols4sure said:
Why do people steal when it is against the law? Why aren't all thieves prosecuted?
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It's practical to enforce laws against private property theft. It's not practical to enforce laws against IP theft. I've never heard of anybody getting busted for recording VHS tapes, but there was that FBI warning.
 
#123
#123
Still nobody has explained philosophically why copying Louis CK's album is theft, but copying Crocs' design is not (unless it's their logo design....for some reason).
 
#124
#124
nbakerld said:
Still nobody has explained philosophically why copying Louis CK's album is theft, but copying Crocs' design is not (unless it's their logo design....for some reason).
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Learn the difference between patent and copyright laws and the intentions behind what each are supposed to protect.

And if the Croc design being copied is protected by a patent, then they are both infringements.
 
#125
#125
nbakerld said:
Still nobody has explained philosophically why copying Louis CK's album is theft, but copying Crocs' design is not (unless it's their logo design....for some reason).
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And you still haven't explained how you are going to make your investment back on my great movie script that is not going to be protected by copyright laws.
 
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