Strike Two, Kentucky...

#26
#26
tvolsfan said:
It's hilarious on catspause the number of people mentioning Matta and Pearl.

They need to realize all the coaches in the world aren't going to drop everything and come to Kentucky.
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It seems like most of the coaches out there don't want to go to Lexington anyways. Who wants to go to a place where they want you fired the first time you fail to win the SEC and make the Elite 8 in the same season?
 
#28
#28
I may be skewered for this, but I am starting wonder if the Tubbything had a racial element to it.
 
#30
#30
lawgator1 said:
This entire scneario is very reminiscent of Florida trying to find a coach after Spurrier left. Not that Tubby Smith had the same kind of success or the same respect with the fans at the time of departure as did Spurrier, but its pretty clear that coaches are going to figure that, absent getting their first choice in Donovan, anyone who comes in and does not get to the FF pretty quick is going to be tarred and feathered by the fanbase.
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Wellll now... they both won a national championship. I'm not sure on the conference championship totals for each, but I believe Tubby had 5 to Spurrier's 6 (?) in less time...
 
#33
#33
Thing is, Tubby was not as highly thought of by the fans as Spurrier. Despite his success on paper, it was not viewed as enough in light of what UK fans have cometo expect. Spurrier may be equal to him on paper, but in terms of exceeding the fans' hopes for success, there is no comparison.
 
#34
#34
lawgator1 said:
Thing is, Tubby was not as highly thought of by the fans as Spurrier. Despite his success on paper, it was not viewed as enough in light of what UK fans have cometo expect. Spurrier may be equal to him on paper, but in terms of exceeding the fans' hopes for success, there is no comparison.
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That simply exposes the facts that Florida fans have low standards. I wouldn't use that as a badge of honor.
 
#35
#35
lawgator1 said:
Thing is, Tubby was not as highly thought of by the fans as Spurrier. Despite his success on paper, it was not viewed as enough in light of what UK fans have cometo expect. Spurrier may be equal to him on paper, but in terms of exceeding the fans' hopes for success, there is no comparison.
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Obviously it's because Tubby was always seen as a guy who won with someone else's players and Spurrier brought UF to prominence.
 
#36
#36
lawgator1 said:
Thing is, Tubby was not as highly thought of by the fans as Spurrier. Despite his success on paper, it was not viewed as enough in light of what UK fans have cometo expect. Spurrier may be equal to him on paper, but in terms of exceeding the fans' hopes for success, there is no comparison.
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Yeah, really no comparison with how each was perceived by their fanbase, but I was speaking on accomplsihments only. Did you ever come across a Gator fan that didn't like Spurrier?
 
#37
#37
UTLCA said:
Obviously it's because Tubby was always seen as a guy who won with someone else's players and Spurrier brought UF to prominence.
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Yeah, lots of guys on the team that went undefeated in the SEC in 2003 were recruited by Pitino. Whole bunch of Rick's guys on the 2005 Elite Eight team as well.
 
#38
#38
hatvol96 said:
That simply exposes the facts that Florida fans have low standards. I wouldn't use that as a badge of honor.
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Actually, you are dead on right. Florida fans had not tasted much football success prior to '94. So, when Spurrier left with a record roughly equivalent (and I do mean roughly) to Tubby's, Florida fans adored the guy.

But Tubby came in where the expectations were already out of sight, if not unattainable. Despite what would otherwise be viewed as a successful career, they ran Tubby out of town.

Florida's fans' expectations were skewed by Spurrier and the coaching prospects knew that and turned Florida down until the sacrificial lamb had been bludgeoned. At Kentucky, its not so much following a coach that everyone loved, its following ANY coach into that pressure cooker.
 
#39
#39
lawgator1 said:
Actually, you are dead on right. Florida fans had not tasted much football success prior to '94. So, when Spurrier left with a record roughly equivalent (and I do mean roughly) to Tubby's, Florida fans adored the guy.

But Tubby came in where the expectations were already out of sight, if not unattainable. Despite what would otherwise be viewed as a successful career, they ran Tubby out of town.

Florida's fans' expectations were skewed by Spurrier and the coaching prospects knew that and turned Florida down until the sacrificial lamb had been bludgeoned. At Kentucky, its not so much following a coach that everyone loved, its following ANY coach into that pressure cooker.
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Then what about the next one? At this point, I don't think any coach stands a chance in Lex, aside from Tom Izzo, Roy Williams, Mike Krazooski, Bob Knight, or any of the top half of head coaches in the NBA. That is unless whoever comes in makes multiple Final Four appearances in the first 4-ish years.
 
#40
#40
lawgator1 said:
At Kentucky, its not so much following a coach that everyone loved, its following ANY coach into that pressure cooker.
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There really aren't many things that compare to the UK fan base.

1. There was somewhat of a racial element with Tubby, probably on par with the Florida fans and Chris Leak.
2. People do not understand that even Pitino endured criticism between games. Fans were always complaining about substitutions and Ricky P's NBA suitors. He was not "immortalized" until he left.
3. This job requires good x and o's, but how handling the time and pressure between ballgames is equally important.
 
#41
#41
hatvol96 said:
Yeah, lots of guys on the team that went undefeated in the SEC in 2003 were recruited by Pitino. Whole bunch of Rick's guys on the 2005 Elite Eight team as well.
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Should I edit my post to "won the NC*"?
 
#43
#43
milohimself said:
I find it stunning that this even still happens...
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Don't. You're in Oregon so I understand that. But when you saw those gay ass USC frat guys in Borat talking about blacks, that's what a lot of people still think down here, both young and old.
 
#44
#44
milohimself said:
I find it stunning that this even still happens...
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If I lived in the Northwest I would find it stunning as well. There was probably about 10-20% of the fanbase that could never get over the fact that he was black.
 
#45
#45
So what about other coaches in the SEC? How do MSU fans feel about Sly Croom? And any other African-American head coaches I can't think of at the moment.
 
#46
#46
milohimself said:
So what about other coaches in the SEC? How do MSU fans feel about Sly Croom? And any other African-American head coaches I can't think of at the moment.
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I have several redneck caucasian friends that are MSU fans, and they love Croom.

As long as there are people on earth that spent formative years (people born in the 1920s, 1930s, and 1940s) thinking that the black race is inferior, we will have to put up with racist bs. Things are getting better, but we certainly aren't there yet.
 
#47
#47
Lexvol said:
I have several redneck caucasian friends that are MSU fans, and they love Croom.

As long as there are people on earth that spent formative years (people born in the 1920s, 1930s, and 1940s) thinking that the black race is inferior, we will have to put up with racist bs. Things are getting better, but we certainly aren't there yet.
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No offense to Sly, but why do they love him?

Also, the people that lived in the 20s-40s aren't just the ones that think that. My fraternity has been looked down upon by some people because we have "N**..." in the fraternity.
 
#49
#49
Tubby's race certainly didn't help endear him to the fan base. I do think, however, the main factor was the ridiculous expectation that UK would win 2 out of 3 national championships and make the final four almost every year, as they had in the last days of Pitino.

The success UK had under Pitino is exceptionally rare; I would bet that Rick himself doubted it could be repeated when he left. Kentucky fans forgot that. They forgot that it had been nearly two decades between national championships before they appeared in the finals 3 consecutive times. They expect that kind of success from their coaches, and they figure that if the program isn't duplicating that success, the coach must not be doing his job.

Please note that in the above discussion, I have credited Tubby's national championship to Pitino. That opinion is not mine, but that of the big blue nation.
 
#50
#50
UTLCA said:
No offense to Sly, but why do they love him?

Also, the people that lived in the 20s-40s aren't just the ones that think that. My fraternity has been looked down upon by some people because we have "N**..." in the fraternity.
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They certainly are not the only ones. Frat boys are typically sheep, and I promise you everyone of them using the N word also has black friends. They just have to look cool in front of their brothers. There That is not the case for people who were actually raised in segregated schools.
 
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