Stupid At This Level Has No Party

#28
#28
Gramps said:
Yes he is.
He is " the evil genius".

If I am a politician no way I go on the Colbert Report.
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Politicians and pundits that are consistent do really well on his show. He'll make fun of them still, but they leave the set having made a generally good impression, IMO.
 
#29
#29
OHvol40 said:
And how do you base the Merit pay Sherlock? The terrific standardized tests that have be just so very great?

You have to allow teachers to teach. Right now you are promoting politicians teaching, super idea.
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Eliminate the teachers union, set basic performance standards (unlike the union standards of did you pay dues and did you use all your sick days), have yearly performance reviews, etc. You know, things that us non-union folks have to work to. Another way of improving teacher performance is to establish methods of going over the principal's head for teacher complaints (yes, I know its a local thing, but it would help).

And yes, I KNOW you are a union member or family member since you jumped into this fray with both barrels blazing defending the rights of a union that has been the biggest proponent of "it's all about the system" instead of "it's all about the kids" for long enough that our current school system most likely cannot be salvaged.
 
#31
#31
TNGlen said:
Eliminate the teachers union, set basic performance standards (unlike the union standards of did you pay dues and did you use all your sick days), have yearly performance reviews, etc. You know, things that us non-union folks have to work to. Another way of improving teacher performance is to establish methods of going over the principal's head for teacher complaints (yes, I know its a local thing, but it would help).

And yes, I KNOW you are a union member or family member since you jumped into this fray with both barrels blazing defending the rights of a union that has been the biggest proponent of "it's all about the system" instead of "it's all about the kids" for long enough that our current school system most likely cannot be salvaged.
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Handcuffing teachers and going over thier heads to try to tell them how to do thier job is :crazy:

How about holding b****y parents accountable. Instead of dumb people sending thier undermanaged children to school and slowing all the other kids down, why don't we make it manditory for kids AND thier parents to pass standardized test in order for thier kids to have the privelege to go to school.

That way we will know what families really are invested in thier child's education, and which ones see school as free daycare.

For the record, no, I am not a teacher. I am not, nor have I ever, been in a Union. I don't like the way Dems handle the education system, but I dislike the Repub's approach even more.
 
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#32
#32
OHvol40 said:
Handcuffing teachers and going over thier heads to try to tell them how to do thier job is :crazy:

How about holding b****y parents accountable. Instead of dumb people sending thier undermanaged children to school and slowing all the other kids down, why don't we make it manditory for kids AND thier parents to pass standardized test in order for thier kids to have the privelege to go to school.

That way we will know what families really are invested in thier child's education, and which ones see school as free daycare.

For the record, no, I am not a teacher. I am not, nor have I ever, been in a Union. I don't like the way Dems handle the education system, but I dislike the Repub's approach even more.
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All time post, IMO.
 
#33
#33
OHvol40 said:
Handcuffing teachers and going over thier heads to try to tell them how to do thier job is :crazy:

How about holding b****y parents accountable. Instead of dumb people sending thier undermanaged children to school and slowing all the other kids down, why don't we make it manditory for kids AND thier parents to pass standardized test in order for thier kids to have the privelege to go to school.

That way we will know what families really are invested in thier child's education, and which ones see school as free daycare.

For the record, no, I am not a teacher. I am not, nor have I ever, been in a Union. I don't like the way Dems handle the education system, but I dislike the Repub's approach even more.
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this post is complaining about education? :blink:

anyway, how would allowing parents to pick their kids teachers not be investing in their education? The money would be directed to the good teachers/schools and rest would step it up or fail. As it is now bad teachers are protected by the unions.

the US spends more than any other country on per student education and gets terrible results. What we do now doesn't work

Velo Vol said:
There's no IQ test to be in Congress. If you have $$/connections and can repeat party talking points, you can get elected.

See the "legitimate rape" guy who has been on the House science and technology committee for half a dozen years.
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anything with technology should be merit based and not about tenure or politics. Of course that's a ridiculous idea with our current system
 
#34
#34
utvolpj said:
this post is complaining about education? :blink:

anyway, how would allowing parents to pick their kids teachers not be investing in their education? The money would be directed to the good teachers/schools and rest would step it up or fail. As it is now bad teachers are protected by the unions.

the US spends more than any other country on per student education and gets terrible results. What we do now doesn't work



anything with technology should be merit based and not about tenure or politics. Of course that's a ridiculous idea with our current system
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You are obsessed with busting Unions instead of the real education issue. Look, unions are nessecary, as are the anti-union interests. Its creates balance. That is not what we are talking about though.

How are parents qualified to determine a teacher's qualifications? Unless you actually sit through a year of class with that teacher, absorb thier teaching style yourself, and do that for every other prospective educator of your childeren, then you are not qualified to make that choice in my opinion.

Thats why I say parents need to take the same tests the student's do. An educational experience requires investment from administration, teachers, parents, and students. Everyone in that chain is held accountable except parents. But THEY are the ones that want to make decisions on what is best for education? Give me a break.

Add some parental accountability, then we'll talk.
 
#35
#35
parents should be allowed to raise their children (that includes education) and not the govt. You obviously disagree
 
#36
#36
utvolpj said:
parents should be allowed to raise their children (that includes education) and not the govt. You obviously disagree
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Then parents should raise the funds to build a school thierselves, and hire thier own staff. Or maybe read a book and teach your own kids.

Beggars cant be choosers. Its a free service.

Repub's say they want small government, but go ahead and impose themselves onto everyone anyway. Dems want to help everybody with a larger govt, but cant' seem to get anything done that helps anyone.

There is an irony here.
 
#37
#37
OHvol40 said:
Then parents should raise the funds to build a school thierselves, and hire thier own staff. Or maybe read a book and teach your own kids.

Beggars cant be choosers. Its a free service.

Repub's say they want small government, but go ahead and impose themselves onto everyone anyway. Dems want to help everybody with a larger govt, but cant' seem to get anything done that helps anyone.

There is an irony here.
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It's not free. They pay for it through taxes. You're saying they should be forced to pay for ****ty schools so that they can turn around and use more of their hard-earned cash to build good private schools?
 
#38
#38
PKT_VOL said:
On a more serious note, people wonder why this country is in the tank. This is a prime example. Forget Obama and Romney, she is the epitome of what is wrong with America.

On another note, why play the race/slavery card if you have no f***ing clue about the history of slavery?
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The bottom line is these are the ones we are electing to local school boards, city councils and other local offices. They are killing us as much as the big players.
 
#39
#39
OHvol40 said:
Then parents should raise the funds to build a school thierselves, and hire thier own staff. Or maybe read a book and teach your own kids.

Beggars cant be choosers. Its a free service.
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wth? It is in no way free. The parents are raising the funds yet the govt is the one dictating how they must be used. Why not allow the parents to dictate how things are run rather than unions and dozens of overpaid, redundant administrators?

the local system here just lower grade level requirements because they said it would allow more students to succeed. Why would anyone want their kid in a system like that? This country has come to believe everything is a right and it's getting out of hand. Results should never be guaranteed and if this woman had been failed in school maybe she wouldn't be in a position to influence so many lives
 
#40
#40
I can't believe some of the comments. Our education system has it challenges, but allowing pay to be based on the "customer"??? Give me a break.

News flash - most parents in this country SUCK. This is not a class/race issue - teachers see it from both sides. Drug addict parents and career addict parents.

A lot of the ideas in this thread could sound like good ideas if you forget the fact that we live in a SOCIETY. And as a group, we will rise and fall to a large extend TOGETHER. Are there exceptions to this - sure, but not a lot.

If you turn education over to a bunch of parents - in 50 years we are going to be in the gutter as a society.

Proof - "Here Comes Honey Boo Boo"

/Thread
 
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#41
#41
TruthIsOutThere said:
A lot of the ideas in this thread could sound like good ideas if you forget the fact that we live in a SOCIETY. And as a group, we will rise and fall to a large extend TOGETHER. Are there exceptions to this - sure, but not a lot.
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you don't become a successful society by playing to and coddling the bottom. Like Judge Smails said...

TruthIsOutThere said:
If you turn education over to a bunch of parents - in 50 years we are going to be in the gutter as a society.

Proof - "Here Comes Honey Boo Boo"

/Thread
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you aren't turning over education, you're turning over the control of where they go, where the money is spent and how they are taught.
 
#42
#42
Well, until we redefine the customer for the educational process, we are doomed. Society is the customer, the kids are the product. Parents are the supplier, teachers are the production capacity.

We have crappy suppliers sending unprepared materials into a faulty production system with the outcome accepted by a customer who is primarily distracted by American Idol.
 
#43
#43
utvolpj said:
you don't become a successful society by playing to and coddling the bottom. Like Judge Smails said...



you aren't turning over education, you're turning over the control of where they go, where the money is spent and how they are taught.
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My post was mostly in response to n_huffines comment suggesting that "you give raises to teachers that are popular among the customers (AKA parents of students), and fire teachers that are extremely unpopular?"

I don't have a problem with some choice in education.
 
#44
#44
YorkVol said:
Well, until we redefine the customer for the educational process, we are doomed. Society is the customer, the kids are the product. Parents are the supplier, teachers are the production capacity.

We have crappy suppliers sending unprepared materials into a faulty production system with the outcome accepted by a customer who is primarily distracted by American Idol.
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+1
 
#45
#45
TruthIsOutThere said:
I can't believe some of the comments. Our education system has it challenges, but allowing pay to be based on the "customer"??? Give me a break.

News flash - most parents in this country SUCK. This is not a class/race issue - teachers see it from both sides. Drug addict parents and career addict parents.

A lot of the ideas in this thread could sound like good ideas if you forget the fact that we live in a SOCIETY. And as a group, we will rise and fall to a large extend TOGETHER. Are there exceptions to this - sure, but not a lot.

If you turn education over to a bunch of parents - in 50 years we are going to be in the gutter as a society.

Proof - "Here Comes Honey Boo Boo"

/Thread
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I don't even know where to start. You think MOST parents suck? The second statement bolded is a complete joke.

When you look at important areas where parents have a lot of control over their consumer choices, like diet, health care, clothing, shelter, etc., I would say clearly most kids are doing well enough to refute your statement that most parents "suck". Why would parents fail so miserably when it comes to choice in education if they generally do well in other consumer markets?
 
#46
#46
n_huffhines said:
I don't even know where to start. You think MOST parents suck? The second statement bolded is a complete joke.

When you look at important areas where parents have a lot of control over their consumer choices, like diet, health care, clothing, shelter, etc., I would say clearly most kids are doing well enough to refute your statement that most parents "suck". Why would parents fail so miserably when it comes to choice in education if they generally do well in other consumer markets?
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I think you may be willfully ignoring the truth. If you think most parents in the US are qualified to make a decision on a teacher's ability, you just have your head in the sand.

This is not personal. Maybe you and the folks you hang out with could do this. I think I could do this - I'm a very involved parent. Most parents are not. Sorry.
 
#47
#47
TruthIsOutThere said:
I think you may be willfully ignoring the truth. If you think most parents in the US are qualified to make a decision on a teacher's ability, you just have your head in the sand.

This is not personal. Maybe you and the folks you hang out with could do this. I think I could do this - I'm a very involved parent. Most parents are not. Sorry.
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I don't think it takes a whole lot of applied intelligence to determine if a teacher sucks or not. Kids can/will inform their parents in most cases.

I'm not a parent, but I have heard things from friends'/coworkers' kids like, "Mr. X doesn't care, he just assigns us busy work." and "Mr. X had us clean out our desks on Monday, and school wasn't out for summer vacation until Friday."

Let's apply these two statements to a parent who has choice and a parent who doesn't:

Public school parent: their kid is stuck with a crappy teacher
Parent with choice: either they care and get a good teacher, or they don't care and their kid remains with the crappy teacher

Which of these is the better case scenario?
 
#48
#48
OHvol40 said:
Handcuffing teachers and going over thier heads to try to tell them how to do thier job is :crazy:

RIght up to the point in time you have a kid accused of cheating with no evidence, told by that same teacher that she has been watching him all semester when she was out over half on maternity leave, was told by same teacher that she didn't know how to use the computer system for grades even though she is the head of the science dept, and told kids that if they couldn't pass her class that they shouldn't even think of pursuing a career in any kind of science. This B***H was backed up by the principal and we literally had to threaten a lawsuit to get anything done about my sons grades. The B***H is still there backed up by a teachers union that can't and won't get rid of her because of her seniority.

How about holding b****y parents accountable. Instead of dumb people sending thier undermanaged children to school and slowing all the other kids down, why don't we make it manditory for kids AND thier parents to pass standardized test in order for thier kids to have the privelege to go to school.

I agree with this 200%.

That way we will know what families really are invested in thier child's education, and which ones see school as free daycare.

For the record, no, I am not a teacher. I am not, nor have I ever, been in a Union. I don't like the way Dems handle the education system, but I dislike the Repub's approach even moreReally, when has a Repub supported a teacher's union? That is what is holding the education system hostage in this country..
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.
 
#49
#49
OHvol40 said:
You are obsessed with busting Unions instead of the real education issue. Look, unions are nessecary, as are the anti-union interests. Its creates balance. That is not what we are talking about though.

How are parents qualified to determine a teacher's qualifications? Unless you actually sit through a year of class with that teacher, absorb thier teaching style yourself, and do that for every other prospective educator of your childeren, then you are not qualified to make that choice in my opinion.

Thats why I say parents need to take the same tests the student's do. An educational experience requires investment from administration, teachers, parents, and students. Everyone in that chain is held accountable except parents. But THEY are the ones that want to make decisions on what is best for education? Give me a break.

Add some parental accountability, then we'll talk.
Click to expand...

Unions haven't been necessary for over 30 years and you can see that evidenced by there ever decreasing membership numbers.

The reason that I am more qualified than a majority of the teachers that my kids had is because I am way more educated than most of them. I have spoken to many of them and I have tutored kids that took the same material that they did and have observed the teaching methods. Too many times I have been told "wow, if my teacher would just explain it that way I would have understood it".
 
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