Suicide Squad (August 5, 2016)

#101
#101
I agree they are rushing to try and catch up to Marvel, and they just needed to concede that Marvel got to it first and then just did their own thing and their own pace.

They already had the weird situation where they started it all right after the end of the successful and popular Nolan Batman trilogy, where they immediately had to recast Batman. Then instead of doing Man of Steel and going directly into Batman v. Superman, which turned into a mini-JL movie, they should have done a stand alone Batman movie first, then maybe even a stand alone WW movie, THEN moved to the JL stuff.

Marvel definitely did it right.
 
#102
#102
Also I think it hurts DC a bit that their TV shows don't fit in their CU, whereas Marvel's does. It's a tad confusing when you have shows like Supergirl, Arrow, Flash, etc. that all are in the same universe, but then Gotham isn't, and now DC will have different versions of the Flash and Superman out there. They even have the new comedy on NBC that's DC that doesn't fit with any of the other shows.
 
#103
#103
VolsSportsFan said:
Also I think it hurts DC a bit that their TV shows don't fit in their CU, whereas Marvel's does. It's a tad confusing when you have shows like Supergirl, Arrow, Flash, etc. that all are in the same universe, but then Gotham isn't, and now DC will have different versions of the Flash and Superman out there. They even have the new comedy on NBC that's DC that doesn't fit with any of the other shows.
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And when you look at the success of the shows like Flash, Arrow, and Supergirl then contrast the tone of those shows vs the movies I think it would be clear what audiences are actually drawn too.

Now, are the DC movies unwatchable cluster Fs like Batman And Robin? Lord no! They just aren't any fun and kinda boring.
 
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#104
#104
burntorangeVOLffle said:
And when you look at the success of the shows like Flash, Arrow, and Supergirl then contrast the tone of those shows vs the movies I think it would be clear what audiences are actually drawn too.

Now, are the DC movies unwatchable cluster Fs like Batman And Robin? Lord no! They just aren't any fun and kinda boring.
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True. I've enjoyed Gotham and Flash way more than Zac Snyder's two films. Either go rated R like the extended cut BvS or try to capture the feel of the TV show. Sitting in the middle is boring. Deadpool proves a rated R comic book movie can gross as much as BvS did.
 
#105
#105
I'm not familiar with this particular comic book and neither are a lot of people I've spoken with. The only character in the entire main cast that the general public will be familiair with is The Joker. This movie will take a hit at the box office because of it's obscurity.
 
#106
#106
Coug said:
I'm not familiar with this particular comic book and neither are a lot of people I've spoken with. The only character in the entire main cast that the general public will be familiair with is The Joker. This movie will take a hit at the box office because of it's obscurity.
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Some will know Harley. Croc, if they played the Arkham games and watched the cartoons. The others are pretty obscure, you're right. Maybe Deadshot if they watch Arrow. Batman is in it briefly. Ezra Miller (the Flash) is listed in the cast on IMDB. The Guardians of the Galaxy were far more obscure though and it did well. It may bomb in the box office, though I doubt it.
 
#107
#107
G0 BIG 0RANGE said:
Some will know Harley. Croc, if they played the Arkham games and watched the cartoons. The others are pretty obscure, you're right. Maybe Deadshot if they watch Arrow. Batman is in it briefly. Ezra Miller (the Flash) is listed in the cast on IMDB. The Guardians of the Galaxy were far more obscure though and it did well. It may bomb in the box office, though I doubt it.
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Agree that Harley is a very popular character. She is probably one of the most recognizable characters created in the past 25 years.

It's currently on pace to beat Guardians opening weekend. From the sounds of it, I doubt it has the same legs.
 
#109
#109
Coug said:
I'm not familiar with this particular comic book and neither are a lot of people I've spoken with. The only character in the entire main cast that the general public will be familiair with is The Joker. This movie will take a hit at the box office because of it's obscurity.
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Obscurity doesn't necessarily mean that it will suffer at the BO. Guardians of the Galaxy is obscure af and it cleaned up.
 
#111
#111
vols 30 said:
Guardians wasn't killed by critics though. Many of the reviews of Suicide Squad that I've read were brutal.
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Guardians also rode the wave of Marvel that was already established. SS is following BvS which got a mixed reception at best, so it's not like DC is at the same place Marvel was when GotG was released.
 
#112
#112
Coug said:
I'm not familiar with this particular comic book and neither are a lot of people I've spoken with. The only character in the entire main cast that the general public will be familiair with is The Joker. This movie will take a hit at the box office because of it's obscurity.
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Harley Q is pretty well known, probably as well known to the general public as Deadpool was when he came out. Most of my friends just knew him as the guy from Wolverine. So I don't buy the "its an obscure character" so nobody will watch. If its good fans will watch it. Hell most people had no clue who Blade was and it killed same with Guardians.
 
#113
#113
VolsSportsFan said:
Guardians also rode the wave of Marvel that was already established. SS is following BvS which got a mixed reception at best, so it's not like DC is at the same place Marvel was when GotG was released.
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I agree Marvel helps but in the end I don't think the average person says, "oh it's DC I'm not watching it" just us nerds lol
 
#114
#114
Pros: I enjoyed the actual squad for the most part. Enjoyed Will Smith's presence a lot more than I thought I would. Actually thought they handled his backstory and characterization really well, though I wouldn't have minded had the movie been a tad less centered on him. Harley was great, Waller was great, Croc dude was pretty awesome, Flagg was good, and holy ****, even Jai Courtney was pretty enjoyable as well (pretty much a miracle right there)! This group is one I certainly would love to see in a much better movie, because they really weren't a problem here.

Negatives: Back to the squad; Harley was performed well, but my god was her backstory a complete mess and waste of time. I honestly wish they had saved that and her relationship with the Joker for another movie. Just felt rushed and crammed in and ultimately pointless. I was so-so with Diablo's development, as well as Flagg's where there was some missed potential. Left some of the rest of the squad like Croc and Boomerang extremely weakly developed. Some of the motivations by the characters don't really make much sense. Really, the whole mission in general was just kind of lame. the last two acts left a good bit to be desired. Really choppy editing throughout, a whole lot of stuff I imagine was left on the cutting room floor. Overdid the music/soundtrack a bit much.

tl;dnr Enjoyed the cast, and found the movie pretty entertaining, but the final two acts and some of the subplots/characterizations are a total mess. In a lot of ways, it reminds me of BvS, except a bit more entertaining and fun. B-
 
#115
#115
G0 BIG 0RANGE said:
Some will know Harley. Croc, if they played the Arkham games and watched the cartoons. The others are pretty obscure, you're right. Maybe Deadshot if they watch Arrow. Batman is in it briefly. Ezra Miller (the Flash) is listed in the cast on IMDB. The Guardians of the Galaxy were far more obscure though and it did well. It may bomb in the box office, though I doubt it.
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I'll give you that on Guardians. It was fairly obscure and still flourished.

BadJerry20 said:
Harley Q is pretty well known, probably as well known to the general public as Deadpool was when he came out. Most of my friends just knew him as the guy from Wolverine. So I don't buy the "its an obscure character" so nobody will watch. If its good fans will watch it. Hell most people had no clue who Blade was and it killed same with Guardians.
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I now know Deadpool only because of the recent movie. Harley Quinn, still don't her. Other than a comic book or some random animated cartoon has she EVER been in any of the past Batman movies, a live-action tv show somewhere? Blade was just awesome. It was a vampire movie though so it was a very mainstream idea and it was Wesley Snipes at the height of his career. Add to that some great trailer scenes peppered with some witty one-liners and you've won over most of the general public.

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that it'll for sure be a flop or it won't even be good, I hope for the opposite actually. I'm just saying the familiarity isn't there for most people. Ask 5 random people if they know who the suicide squad is and what each characters abilities/traits are and very few of them will know the answers.
 
#116
#116
Coug said:
I'll give you that on Guardians. It was fairly obscure and still flourished.



I now know Deadpool only because of the recent movie. Harley Quinn, still don't her. Other than a comic book or some random animated cartoon has she EVER been in any of the past Batman movies, a live-action tv show somewhere? Blade was just awesome. It was a vampire movie though so it was a very mainstream idea and it was Wesley Snipes at the height of his career. Add to that some great trailer scenes peppered with some witty one-liners and you've won over most of the general public.

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that it'll for sure be a flop or it won't even be good, I hope for the opposite actually. I'm just saying the familiarity isn't there for most people. Ask 5 random people if they know who the suicide squad is and what each characters abilities/traits are and very few of them will know the answers.
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GotG was so obscure even most comic fans knew very little about them. In fact that particular iteration had only been around maybe 5 years.

Which is very much the case for this group in Suicide Squad. I think this group first appeared around 2011.

Also, you are selling Harley way short. She first appeared on Barman The Animated Series in 1992 when it aired in primetime. She was a consistent reoccurring character and even had several episodes that focused directly on her.

The show was hardly "some random cartoon". It's widely considered one of the best adaptations of Batman outside of comics. Won dozens of awards including a Primetime Emmy and a few daytime Emmys.
 
#117
#117
BadJerry20 said:
I agree Marvel helps but in the end I don't think the average person says, "oh it's DC I'm not watching it" just us nerds lol
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No but I do think the average person is heavily influenced by what is getting good buzz/reviews/word of mouth. Marvel has yet to have that problem, and DC can't seem to get away from it.
 
#118
#118
Coug said:
I'll give you that on Guardians. It was fairly obscure and still flourished.



I now know Deadpool only because of the recent movie. Harley Quinn, still don't her. Other than a comic book or some random animated cartoon has she EVER been in any of the past Batman movies, a live-action tv show somewhere? Blade was just awesome. It was a vampire movie though so it was a very mainstream idea and it was Wesley Snipes at the height of his career. Add to that some great trailer scenes peppered with some witty one-liners and you've won over most of the general public.

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that it'll for sure be a flop or it won't even be good, I hope for the opposite actually. I'm just saying the familiarity isn't there for most people. Ask 5 random people if they know who the suicide squad is and what each characters abilities/traits are and very few of them will know the answers.
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I'm just saying characters being known or unknown doesn't matter to non comic fans. Most of them probably didn't really know Iron Man as he was a B level character pre movies, and not many comic fans were saying, "oh sh*t an Iron Man movie I have to see it." and RDjr was an after thought to most people at that point. Like VSF reviews and word of mouth drive the lesser known characters. Its how GOtG and Deadpool (and brilliant marketing for Deadpool) thrived not because people knew who they were. To your Snipes point Smith is a bigger name than he was, SS should have been selling on his name more. IMO

Edit: Superman, Batman, Hulk, Spidey, and Wolverine maybe Cap, matter to non comic fans but that's about it. Outside of those, average people aren't going to know much about any characters.
 
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#119
#119
VolsSportsFan said:
No but I do think the average person is heavily influenced by what is getting good buzz/reviews/word of mouth. Marvel has yet to have that problem, and DC can't seem to get away from it.
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I agree. DC is so far behind Marvel at this point its not funny and they are scrambling to catch up and making strange moves in doing so. Marvel built the perfect Universe while DC is grabbing at random pieces and trying to glue them together.
 
#120
#120
What I find funniest about all this is the one decision made that everyone flipped over (myself included), BA as Batman, has turned out to be the one thing almost everyone agrees they got right.
 
#121
#121
VolsSportsFan said:
What I find funniest about all this is the one decision made that everyone flipped over (myself included), BA as Batman, has turned out to be the one thing almost everyone agrees they got right.
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Y'know... I wasn't thrilled with the casting but wasn't writing him completely off like the rest of the interent. Then he was one of the few consensus positives that came out of BvS. But when I finally got around to watching it (the extended cut that I still haven't finished) I was kinda let down. He wasn't BAD per se but I certainly wasn't blown away.

Im ok with him going forward but I don't think he will be the iconic actor to play the character like RDJ:Iron Man, Chris Evans:Capt America or Chris Reeves:Superman.
 
#122
#122
Ulysees E. McGill said:
I guess I'm in the minority, but I actually enjoy the darker, more brooding concept of Mos and BvS. It made Supe much more appealing as a character to me. I agree with the gripe about cramming so much it feels like a rush though. I would have enjoyed a more thorough treatment.
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And yet you have a fluffy rainbow unicorn fetish...

:)
 
#123
#123
burntorangeVOLffle said:
Y'know... I wasn't thrilled with the casting but wasn't writing him completely off like the rest of the interent. Then he was one of the few consensus positives that came out of BvS. But when I finally got around to watching it (the extended cut that I still haven't finished) I was kinda let down. He wasn't BAD per se but I certainly wasn't blown away.

Im ok with him going forward but I don't think he will be the iconic actor to play the character like RDJ:Iron Man, Chris Evans:Capt America or Chris Reeves:Superman.
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Probably not. It's likely more that he stands out in an otherwise meh movie. Kind of like I thought Ewan McGregor stood out in the Star Wars prequels because he did a dead on Alec Guiness as a younger man, but otherwise it wasn't a great performance. It just stood out more in bad movies.
 
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