Sunbelt Billy

[BigOrangeTrain]

Florida is not going to crumble like a lot of you apparently think. They may not be the force they were in the 90's, but they will still be strong in time.

How do you know? Honest question for you. Rewind back to 2007. What if I told you that we won’t beat Bama agin until 2022? Or if I told you that we won’t have a double digit win season again until 2022? You would have said I am insane. You gotta remember the UF athletic department is not the same as it once was. UF could absolutely crumble and be irrelevant like we were for almost 15 years.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

The bad news is that he's recruiting well. I hope UF goes all Mark Richt with him and keeps him in spite of underperformance... for years. If they hire a competent coach with that talent then it could be rough.

Why would Napier getting highly rated recruits matter? Stars don’t matter right?

 

[VolinMichigan]

Yeah. He was brought in to recruit. While the QB backing out of his NLI was a bad look, a couple of top 5 recruiting classes can potentially cure alot of ills. I think he's the guy.

Wait, so now he’s “the guy” because of a couple of big commits that haven’t even signed? Don’t we judge coaches on wins and losses? Or game management? That’s where he and the team struggled last year and they had plenty of talented guys. Until he proves otherwise, Billy will be subject to scrutiny that comes with being the head coach in the SEC. 5-6 wins again in 2023 will put him in hot water regardless of how many big recruits he brings in.

 

[Lawrence Wright]

Wait, so now he’s “the guy” because of a couple of big commits that haven’t even signed? Don’t we judge coaches on wins and losses? Or game management? That’s where he and the team struggled last year and they had plenty of talented guys. Until he proves otherwise, Billy will be subject to scrutiny that comes with being the head coach in the SEC. 5-6 wins again in 2023 will put him in hot water regardless of how many big recruits he brings in.

He’s the guy for now.

For better or for worse, Napier gets at least two more seasons in spite of how bad 2023 appears to look.

 

[VolinMichigan]

He’s the guy for now.

For better or for worse, Napier gets at least two more seasons in spite of how bad 2023 appears to look.

That’s totally fair. This hair trigger boosters have developed is ultimately bad for everyone. It just assures more money being sucked down the drain and into agent’s pockets.

 

[sjt18]

Why would Napier getting highly rated recruits matter? Stars don’t matter right?

Never said that. You making that accusation just proves how obtuse you've been in our discussions.

They aren't as ironclad as you claim and the association with championships and winning isn't what you claim.

FWIW, he seems to be getting some really talented guys... and that's troubling precisely because he may not survive and they may hire someone who can coach them up. Kind of like what happened when Meyer arrived at UF behind Zook. Zook had recruited a pretty good roster but couldn't coach worth a dime.

 

[DirtyDawg]

He’s the guy for now.

For better or for worse, Napier gets at least two more seasons in spite of how bad 2023 appears to look.

I agree, and I think he should. Some here and many of my GA brethren are of the opinion that FL is destined for many years of agony. It’s a nice thought for us but honestly an opinion made out of wishful thinking.

Looks to me like Billy and Co are putting in the work for recruiting. I’m no expert on Napier’s X’s and O’s, but I know that the raging Cajuns were probably better than they should’ve been when he was there. I’d certainly give the man a little time and a fair chance for success.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Never said that. You making that accusation just proves how obtuse you've been in our discussions.

They aren't as ironclad as you claim and the association with championships and winning isn't what you claim.

FWIW, he seems to be getting some really talented guys... and that's troubling precisely because he may not survive and they may hire someone who can coach them up. Kind of like what happened when Meyer arrived at UF behind Zook. Zook had recruited a pretty good roster but couldn't coach worth a dime.

You said “The bad news is he is recruiting well.” You said that because he is getting a bunch of highly rated players. If they were just getting 3* and low 4* players, you wouldn’t be saying he is recruiting well. Wonder why? Because stars matter.

You keep failing at this and I love seeing it. UGA and Bama completely defeat your theory of teams that win the most championships don’t have the highest rated recruits.

 

[sjt18]

You said “The bad news is he is recruiting well.” You said that because he is getting a bunch of highly rated players. If they were just getting 3* and low 4* players, you wouldn’t be saying he is recruiting well. Wonder why? Because stars matter.

He is getting players that other top programs are pursuing. If you want to delude yourself into believing they're pursuing them because On3 or 247 discovered them and gave them a high rating then you can go ahead and be that stupid.

You keep failing at this and I love seeing it. UGA and Bama completely defeat your theory of teams that win the most championships don’t have the highest rated recruits.

No. They don't. And at this point I'm not sure if you are just obtuse or you really lack the mental reasoning ability to understand.

If there were no recruiting sites. Smart and Saban would find talent as would other top programs. Top programs were doing so and winning championships BEFORE those businesses started. Top programs and recruiters are NOT dependent on them. The opposite is not true. If the recruiting sites had to evaluate talent without knowing which programs were recruiting which players... they'd be even less accurate.

Who do YOU think is copying whose work?

You have also pulled 2-4 programs out of the context of the whole. If you were right then there is simply no way that OU or Texas would have been as bad as they were last year in the Big 12. Texas had the #6 most talented roster according to 247's composite. OU was #9. The next most talented team according to 247 was TCU at 32.

The fact that so many teams with supposed top 10 or top 25 talent are so bad completely destroys your argument. You never deal with these FACTS.... or that high ratings for those handful of programs are an effect... not the cause.

 

[ptcarter]

Napier is the Butch Jones of Florida.

Jury still out. I wouldn't say Florida is immune to a Butch scenario, but our luck...

 

[BAMA-DAWG]

Wait, so now he’s “the guy” because of a couple of big commits that haven’t even signed? Don’t we judge coaches on wins and losses? Or game management? That’s where he and the team struggled last year and they had plenty of talented guys. Until he proves otherwise, Billy will be subject to scrutiny that comes with being the head coach in the SEC. 5-6 wins again in 2023 will put him in hot water regardless of how many big recruits he brings in.

I'd agree they had some guys. Not plenty. I'm not sure if they had a 5* on the roster last season. They haven't sniffed a top 5 recruiting class in a decade, while their biggest conference rival is winning natty's. They've fallen behind UT, after playing for the conference championship in 2020. Napier is a relentless recruiter. When he gets some depth on his roster, you might see his win/loss % and game management improve.

 

[LouderVol]

We disagree.

And that’s okay.

Seriously going to argue that talent was the issue against VANDY? What's the critical mass of 5* Florida needs before it "should" beat Vandy? You were somehow talented enough to whoop South Carolina (#21), but weren't talented enough to beat Vandy (#60).

you got outplayed, Vandy wanted it more, that's a coaching problem, not a talent problem. Simply put Napier refused to adapt his scheme to fit his players, he did not put the talent he had in a position to win. Whether that's in game coaching, motivation, scheme adjustments, or just cultural buy in.

Objectively speaking Florida only played two teams with more talent than them.

 

[Lawrence Wright]

Seriously going to argue that talent was the issue against VANDY? What's the critical mass of 5* Florida needs before it "should" beat Vandy? You were somehow talented enough to whoop South Carolina (#21), but weren't talented enough to beat Vandy (#60).

you got outplayed, Vandy wanted it more, that's a coaching problem, not a talent problem. Simply put Napier refused to adapt his scheme to fit his players, he did not put the talent he had in a position to win. Whether that's in game coaching, motivation, scheme adjustments, or just cultural buy in.

Objectively speaking Florida only played two teams with more talent than them.

Vandy beat us and they shouldn’t have, never said otherwise. If you want to argue Napier is a poor coach because Vandy beat us, have at it. Time will tell.

UF’s defense has been historically bad the last three seasons. Our talent has been at best mediocre since Muschamp’s recruits left around 2018.

Last season our offense was a patchwork of transfers, the slowest group of WRs in recent memory at UF, and a talented yet inconsistent first time starter at QB.

UF’s roster was garbage last season, and based on our spring game it probably will be again this season. Hopefully our 2024 class sticks and they live up to their ranking.

 

[LouderVol]

The bad news is that he's recruiting well. I hope UF goes all Mark Richt with him and keeps him in spite of underperformance... for years. If they hire a competent coach with that talent then it could be rough.

yeah if they are accepting that he is a true stop gap coach to just fill the cupboards, that's one thing. But I don't see consistently winning the SEC or even really challenging for it. If your scheme needs talent to beat Vandy, there is something wrong with your scheme. I know the east is going away so this comparison doesn't really hold water, but I would see them as #3 in the east consistently. Yeah they would beat us some years with Florida magic, and Georgia would probably slip up once in a blue moon, but I don't see him being consistently top.

The division-less SEC will make it worse for them. How times did they win the east and clearly weren't the 2nd best SEC team that year?

They get in a good X-O coach with the talent they are pulling in I would absolutely agree.

 

[LouderVol]

Vandy beat us and they shouldn’t have, never said otherwise. If you want to argue Napier is a poor coach because Vandy beat us, have at it. Time will tell.

UF’s defense has been historically bad the last three seasons. Our talent has been at best mediocre since Muschamp’s recruits left around 2018.

Last season our offense was a patchwork of transfers, the slowest group of WRs in recent memory at UF, and a talented yet inconsistent first time starter at QB.

UF’s roster was garbage last season, and based on our spring game it probably will be again this season. Hopefully our 2024 class sticks and they live up to their ranking.

and yet you still have more than enough talent. Recruiting rankings say it, NFL draft says it. Heck if you were even making the argument that Napier needs his guys, I would respect that. But you are just saying its a talent issue. and thus the high rankings are to be praised, apparently above anything else Napier is doing.

Besides the QB situation which has blown up in Napier's face, some his fault, some not, I would challenge you to go down a bottom half SEC roster and tell me what players you would trade for. and not saying your #3 for their #1. You could cherry pick some guys from each roster, but you wouldn't find any of the teams you would happily trade with to make Napier a better coach. meanwhile some guys like Mark Stoops would be absolutely drooling to have Florida's roster.

I think I said this earlier in this thread, but UF better be hoping for a Mike Norvell payoff and be willing to accept the consequences of playing in the SEC and not the ACC.

 

[Lawrence Wright]

I'd agree they had some guys. Not plenty. I'm not sure if they had a 5* on the roster last season. They haven't sniffed a top 5 recruiting class in a decade, while their biggest conference rival is winning natty's. They've fallen behind UT, after playing for the conference championship in 2020. Napier is a relentless recruiter. When he gets some depth on his roster, you might see his win/loss % and game management improve.

Justin Shorter was a 5* recruit coming out of HS.

I remember being excited about him transferring from Penn State to UF, then I saw him play. Nice serviceable SEC WR, but he wouldn’t sniff the field on our championship caliber teams from the 90s or mid 00s.

See also former 4* WR Xzavier Henderson who recently transferred to Cincinnati. Big brother CJ got all the speed in that family.

Meanwhile, Kadarius Toney was a 3* recruit. He was easily our most talented playmaker since Percy.

 

[Lawrence Wright]

and yet you still have more than enough talent. Recruiting rankings say it, NFL draft says it. Heck if you were even making the argument that Napier needs his guys, I would respect that. But you are just saying its a talent issue. and thus the high rankings are to be praised, apparently above anything else Napier is doing.

Besides the QB situation which has blown up in Napier's face, some his fault, some not, I would challenge you to go down a bottom half SEC roster and tell me what players you would trade for. and not saying your #3 for their #1. You could cherry pick some guys from each roster, but you wouldn't find any of the teams you would happily trade with to make Napier a better coach. meanwhile some guys like Mark Stoops would be absolutely drooling to have Florida's roster.

I think I said this earlier in this thread, but UF better be hoping for a Mike Norvell payoff and be willing to accept the consequences of playing in the SEC and not the ACC.

Yeah we disagree on how talented UF’s roster is.

I would have gladly swapped Pearsall and Porter for Hyatt and Tillman. Maybe then opposing defenses couldn’t have stacked the box against AR and Etienne every week.

I’ll leave you to your opinion on Napier not being the guy to coach them up. Again, time will tell.

 

[sjt18]

Guys. Don’t discourage Napier supporting UF fans

 

[Lawrence Wright]

Guys. Don’t discourage Napier supporting UF fans

0-12

 

[LouderVol]

Yeah we disagree on how talented UF’s roster is.

I would have gladly swapped Pearsall and Porter for Hyatt and Tillman. Maybe then opposing defenses couldn’t have stacked the box against AR and Etienne every week.

I’ll leave you to your opinion on Napier not being the guy to coach them up. Again, time will tell.

I am sorry, we beat you guys, so CLEARLY talent isn't an issue here.

 

[sjt18]

0-12

Nah. That would get him fired for sure. Need to win 6-8 so you’re convinced better things are just over the horizon like many Vols did with Jones

 

[Lawrence Wright]

I am sorry, we beat you guys, so CLEARLY talent isn't an issue here.

Clearly.

 

[lawgator1]

I am sorry, we beat you guys, so CLEARLY talent isn't an issue here.

Just as time will tell whether a) Napier's recruits stick around and b) he can coach them well and up to their potential, so will time tell whether last year was less about long term building at UT and more about the chemistry that happily coexisted between Hooker, the receivers, and the coaching staff.

None of the above -- whether it is UT or UF based -- can be known with any certainty at the moment.

 

[Lawrence Wright]

Just as time will tell whether a) Napier's recruits stick around and b) he can coach them well and up to their potential, so will time tell whether last year was less about long term building at UT and more about the chemistry that happily coexisted between Hooker, the receivers, and the coaching staff.

None of the above -- whether it is UT or UF based -- can be known with any certainty at the moment.

I’m certain we will struggle to make a bowl game in 2023.

I’m certain Napier will keep his job past this season, but will be coaching for his life in 2024 with a brutal schedule.

Recruiting appears to be on the upswing, that appears to be a positive.

 

[lawgator1]

I’m certain we will struggle to make a bowl game in 2023.

I’m certain Napier will keep his job past this season, but will be coaching for his life in 2024 with a brutal schedule.

Recruiting appears to be on the upswing, that appears to be a positive.

Agree with all of that and that is why I think the great majority of the Gator fan base is willing to let this play out over the next 2 years, at least.