Supreme Court upholds ObamaCare.

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"Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women. When it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it."

-Justice Learned Hand
 
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Something I haven't figured out. Democrats definitely seem to be in favor of this, but yet some think abortion should be left up to each individual. You can't support both of them.
 
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Velo Vol said:
If you are arguing that we should remove the economic incentives that have created the employer-funded health insurance model, I agree with you. I'm all for removing the employer deductibility for insurance, and making the market more competitive for consumers.

However, that's not what this law was about. And it does very little to change that.
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If you believe that I have some swamp property outside Ok City I will sell you cheap.
 
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"The health law limits the items covered by the pretax flexible-spending accounts people tap to pay for medical expenses—requiring a doctor’s prescription for more items—and, starting in 2013, the law will make it more difficult for some taxpayers to deduct medical expenses (hiking the threshold from 7.5% of adjusted gross income to 10%)."

Yes, I'm already being affected negatively by the changes to flexible spending accounts. My wife has an FSA and we used to buy all types of health items with our flex cards. Now all of that is very limited. Also, the amount of your money you can put into an FSA has been reduced.
 
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lawgator1 said:
LOL. You admit at first that slippery slope arguments are often weak, then say "theoretically" they could force us to buy Chevy's.

That's the weakness. Is it realistic to think the Congress and the POTUS would do that? Of course not.

The fact is that we were faced with a choice: we could either continue down this ridiculous road of skyrocketing costs combined with a continually decreasing number of people paying for it, such that YOU AND I would see our insurance rates go up, up, up to the point of bankrupting us all; or we could spread the cost of health care to everyone and make everyone pay for it.

That the Congress chose the latter is no surprise at all. And I continue to be astounded by the lack of acknowledgement by the far right that those were the choices
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The skyrocketing costs were due in large part to uncontrolled fraud in medicare, government regulation, and the limitation of competition (gov reg). Instead of addressing the issues and fixing what was once the absolute best health care system in the world, the POSPOTUS rammed a completely NEW system down the throats of the American Citizens (yes CITIZENS, the illegals love this a$$). I DO NOT WANT TO PAY FOR HEALTH CARE FOR EVERYONE. I want to pick the policy that is best for ME and let everyone else do the same. 700 million people should not sacrifice the health and well being and their hard earned income for everyone. That is SOCIALISM plain and simple. I notice you say far right. Every poll that I see has at least 50 - 60% of those polled wanting the law repealed or at least the mandate repealed. I guess the other 40 - 50% make up the rest of the population.
 
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lawgator1 said:
Whew !! If that is true I fully expect the board to approve of Obamacare, they being all about small businesses and all. In fact, based on what you say here, it would seem that the cost to small businesses is going to drop dramatically. So they can hire more people !! Excellent!

Right?

Right?

(crickets)
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Sure it will, however, when you have to start paying people 2X what they are making now just so they can make ends meet.....I guess then the small businesses just layoff half of their people. All I know is that my taxes increased exponentially today and I think it sucks.
 
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TNGlen said:
The skyrocketing costs were due in large part to uncontrolled fraud in medicare, government regulation, and the limitation of competition (gov reg). Instead of addressing the issues and fixing what was once the absolute best health care system in the world, the POSPOTUS rammed a completely NEW system down the throats of the American Citizens (yes CITIZENS, the illegals love this a$$). I DO NOT WANT TO PAY FOR HEALTH CARE FOR EVERYONE. I want to pick the policy that is best for ME and let everyone else do the same. 700 million people should not sacrifice the health and well being and their hard earned income for everyone. That is SOCIALISM plain and simple. I notice you say far right. Every poll that I see has at least 50 - 60% of those polled wanting the law repealed or at least the mandate repealed. I guess the other 40 - 50% make up the rest of the population.
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Who do you think has been paying for everyone's healthcare?
 
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cd12 said:
Roberts might have just done more for the Romney campaign than $$$ can buy.
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This is the only bright spot in the ruling. By turning it into a tax, it throws the onus back on Congress to work it out. What this amounted too was a huge side step by the SCOTUS.
 
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this is a long thread and admittedly I jumped right to the last page so I'm not sure if this has been discussed but...

despite some peoples' disappointment with the decision, the opinion may end up being an important catalyst in limiting Congress's power. the ruling gives precedent that prohibits Congress from regulating inactivity under the auspices of the Commerce Clause.

I think most people understood that had the mandate in PPACA been presented as a tax, it clearly would have fallen under Congress's wide taxing power. I find it odd, and I'm confident others do too, that the mandate was upheld based on the taxing power. The taxing power argument wasn't advanced by the Administration and in fact the Administration flatly denied that this was a tax.

I'm still reading through the opinion 193 pages!!). we'll see if my opinion changes.
 
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CSpindizzy said:
Big picture here...even if by some chance any of this was repealed (Romney's only said he woudl repeal part) this SCOTUS decision is precedent. People are ignoring what long term effect this decision has on the country. Not to mention the fact that Roberts will be on this Court MANY years. And Romney's already stated a justice like Roberts is who he would nominate. So even forget the Obamacare aspect and look at the big picture....not good.
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It shows how far we have fallen from the principles this country was founded on.
 
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CSpindizzy said:
Not sure how. Romney's on record for saying this is his kind of judge. He's praised this guy endlessly. Romney did the same thing at a state level. Romney's hands are all over this on several levels. It may get some of the base fired up but banking on Romney is stupid. His 'genius' is already on record saying Roberts is the character he would nominate for courts. If the tax aspect is wrong, then his plan is 'evil'. If 'activist' judges are wrong, he'd nominate one no different. He already stacked MA courts with liberals as governor. Oh he'll come out making grand speeches which is expected. But his record on this broad issue in elected office would in turn give the same result.

Not to mention he cannot go with the "I'll just not enforce it" line like Obama did on immigration. Romney's already on record saying he would enforce current law and current SCOTUS decisions. He's backed into a corner risking being labeled a liar and hypocrite if he changes his position on this now.
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How much did Romneycare cost anyone outside of Mass? Not an f'ing dime. Rommey has always stated that health care should be handled at the state level and isn't a Federal matter.
 
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theFallGuy said:
"Rep. Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif.:
"This decision is a victory for the American people. With this ruling, Americans will benefit from critical patient protections, lower costs for the middle class, more coverage for families, and greater accountability for the insurance industry. The Affordable Care Act is already paying dividends for millions of Americans -- with more to come: Children can no longer be denied coverage due to pre-existing conditions. Seniors are paying less for prescription drugs. Students and young adults can stay on their parents' plans. Being a woman is no longer a pre-existing medical condition.
"In passing health reform, we made history for our nation and progress for the American people. We completed the unfinished business of our society and strengthened the character of our country. We ensured health care would be a right for all, not a privilege for the few. Today, the Supreme Court affirmed our progress and protected that right, securing a future of health and economic security for the middle class and for every American."



ahahahahahaha, Pelosi you are the biggest freakin' elected liar I have ever seen!
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fyp
 
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TNGlen said:
How much did Romneycare cost anyone outside of Mass? Not an f'ing dime. Rommey has always stated that health care should be handled at the state level and isn't a Federal matter.
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Fact challenged statement. Romney had an individual mandate. Why? To ensure fiscal responsibility.

LOL at hypocrisy of the GOP on this. If they propose it, it's justified imposition of sound and shared fiscal responsibility. Obama does it and it's socialism.
 
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Danl said:
Who do you think has been paying for everyone's healthcare?
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I know we pay for it in a back handed way. However, with this blunder, it is now a requirement and is right out in the open that we are going to pay for everything for everybody. You want new tits, go get em. You want an abortion, go get it.....I now will pay directly for this in an UNCONTROLLED manner what used to be funds that could be controlled by Congress.
 
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lawgator1 said:
Fact challenged statement. Romney had an individual mandate. Why? To ensure fiscal responsibility.

LOL at hypocrisy of the GOP on this. If they propose it, it's justified imposition of sound and shared fiscal responsibility. Obama does it and it's socialism.
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Romeny didn't do it to ME, Nobama did. The people of the state of MA have the choice to pick up and move 5 miles and be out of the state. The last bastion of capitalism is dying before our eyes and there is no where else to go. There is a difference in relocating out of state vs out of the country.....although, maybe you should just move to Canada, one less socialist for us to deal with here.
 
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dreVol said:
this is a long thread and admittedly I jumped right to the last page so I'm not sure if this has been discussed but...

despite some peoples' disappointment with the decision, the opinion may end up being an important catalyst in limiting Congress's power. the ruling gives precedent that prohibits Congress from regulating inactivity under the auspices of the Commerce Clause.
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maybe under that specific clause but it allows them to tax absolutely anything they choose. Obamacare may get repealed but the box has been thrown open
 
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TNGlen said:
I know we pay for it in a back handed way. However, with this blunder, it is now a requirement and is right out in the open that we are going to pay for everything for everybody. You want new tits, go get em. You want an abortion, go get it.....I now will pay directly for this in an UNCONTROLLED manner what used to be funds that could be controlled by Congress.
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And in one phrase you prove that you are indeed clueless on what the Act does.
 
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TNGlen said:
Romeny didn't do it to ME, Nobama did. The people of the state of MA have the choice to pick up and move 5 miles and be out of the state. The last bastion of capitalism is dying before our eyes and there is no where else to go. There is a difference in relocating out of state vs out of the country.....although, maybe you should just move to Canada, one less socialist for us to deal with here.
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Avoiding the issue? ok.

Face it, Romney will get very little to no mileage out of this given his prior statements. And that is actually the case with a lot of things in this election.
 
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TNGlen said:
How much did Romneycare cost anyone outside of Mass? Not an f'ing dime. Rommey has always stated that health care should be handled at the state level and isn't a Federal matter.
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Since he was a governor of a state and this was a state law, not a dime outside. What is your point? The fact is a mandate is a mandate. If the mandate was the wrong, what level of government matters? Are you saying that as long as it is state level broad reaches of power are OK?

Healthcare cannot be a state level. While working at Bain he even acknowledged this. How many corporations that overlap state and even national lines deal with issues beyond a state? Healthcare crosses state lines. Healthcare companies cross state lines.

And I beg to differ on him ALWAYS stating it should be a state and not national level. Feel free to go over statements and videos about how Obama should use Romneycare as a national model.
 
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Velo Vol said:
He can run against the provision he pioneered in Massachusetts.
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Opponents of Obamacare won't care about Romneycare. At this point, they can't. Maybe they won't believe Romney's promise that he will seek to repeal Obamacare, but Romney's the only chance they have to get it repealed. Is Romney being a hypocrite? Abso-freaking-lutlely. But either you care enough to vote for your only hope of repeal, or you don't.
 
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