Supreme Court upholds ObamaCare.

#152
#152
Romney has stated he will repeal part - of course it takes more than him to repeal. Boehner has stated ALL needs to be repealed. The 26 and under living at home will beg to differ as well as those with previous conditions. Before coming out making idiotic statements they need to be mindful how they actually will be used against them on this issue. If they keep saying 'repeal ALL' this will give the Dems all they need to use this against the GOP. And the fact that none of the GOP leadership is unified means a muddled language for the campaign. Add the muddled immigration message and the American voter is less likely to want them back in power.
 
#154
#154
utvolpj said:
maybe under that specific clause but it allows them to tax absolutely anything they choose. Obamacare may get repealed but the box has been thrown open
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... Which nobody disputed they could do.

He does have a point, the scotus simultaneously upheld the law and limited federal powers with this precedent.

Also, supreme court justices are obligated to decide in their own way to uphold or strike down a law in the way they see fit whether or not that argument was presented to them, eg commerce clause vs taxing powers.
 
#155
#155
CSpindizzy said:
Since he was a governor of a state and this was a state law, not a dime outside. What is your point? The fact is a mandate is a mandate. If the mandate was the wrong, what level of government matters? Are you saying that as long as it is state level broad reaches of power are OK?

Healthcare cannot be a state level. While working at Bain he even acknowledged this. How many corporations that overlap state and even national lines deal with issues beyond a state? Healthcare crosses state lines. Healthcare companies cross state lines.

And I beg to differ on him ALWAYS stating it should be a state and not national level. Feel free to go over statements and videos about how Obama should use Romneycare as a national model.
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Each state has a constitution. As long as this activity was allowed by the MA constitution, then the STATE has a right to do what they want. The U.S. is SUPPOSED to be a Republic of individual States. We are seeing more and more everyday that the SCOTUS is finding ways of getting rid of the State constitutions and putting us all under one big umbrella. What Romney did was allowed in his state. What Nobama did, should not have been allowed in the COUNTRY. If each state wants to put in a universal health care system at the state level, then go for it. Many State Constitutions won't allow it. Why do you think the big boys in MA like the Kennedy's and Kerry's take their multi-million dollar assets like yachts to other states and register them.....they don't want to pay MA taxes on them.
 
#156
#156
TNGlen said:
I know we pay for it in a back handed way. However, with this blunder, it is now a requirement and is right out in the open that we are going to pay for everything for everybody. You want new tits, go get em. You want an abortion, go get it.....I now will pay directly for this in an UNCONTROLLED manner what used to be funds that could be controlled by Congress.
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Haha, you just prefer the out of sight out of mind approach?
 
#157
#157
MystifyingVol said:
It forces me to pay for something I don't want and then tax me if I don't buy it.

You're a piece of ****.
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There is a large group of us that are already being forced to pay for all this healthcare for those that pay in nothing. Are you in this group?

If not, I can see your angst at maybe having to pay for some of your healthcare that I have been paying for.

BTW, I don't like the ACA or the decision by SCOTUS. But I don't live in a magical paradise built just for me.
 
#158
#158
Well I have to say I'm surprised but not surprised. All day yesterday I started to get the feeling that the opponents were too sure it would be stricken down.

Big win for Obama and a loss for the country IMHO.

The primary hope now is that it motivates people to get rid of Obama - a 2010 style reaction. Not sure that will be enough though.
 
#159
#159
Danl said:
There is a large group of us that are already being forced to pay for all this healthcare for those that pay in nothing. Are you in this group?

If not, I can see your angst at maybe having to pay for some of your healthcare that I have been paying for.

BTW, I don't like the ACA or the decision by SCOTUS. But I don't live in a magical paradise built just for me.
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For me the problem is that this bill conflates health insurance with healthcare. You don't have to have health insurance to pay for healthcare although that is the primary payment vehicle.

The commerce is healthcare not health insurance.
 
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#160
#160
theutvolunteers said:
Haha, you just prefer the out of sight out of mind approach?
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No I just prefer line items like planned parenthood that indirectly use tax money to provide free or nearly free abortions at the drop of a hat, that can be defunded. This monstrosity doesn't have that kind of option.
 
#162
#162
volinbham said:
Well I have to say I'm surprised but not surprised. All day yesterday I started to get the feeling that the opponents were too sure it would be stricken down.

Big win for Obama and a loss for the country IMHO.

The primary hope now is that it motivates people to get rid of Obama - a 2010 style reaction. Not sure that will be enough though.
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Which is all that matters in the end.
 
#163
#163
volinbham said:
Well I have to say I'm surprised but not surprised. All day yesterday I started to get the feeling that the opponents were too sure it would be stricken down.

Big win for Obama and a loss for the country IMHO.

The primary hope now is that it motivates people to get rid of Obama - a 2010 style reaction. Not sure that will be enough though.
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I also share the distinct feeling that this could lead to a republican sweep... Which might get the aca repealed, but imo one party holding all the majorities is never a good thing
 
#164
#164
volinbham said:
For me the problem is that this bill conflates health insurance with healthcare. You don't have to have health insurance to pay for healthcare although that is the primary payment vehicle.

The commerce is healthcare not health insurance.
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Well said.
 
#165
#165
volinbham said:
Well I have to say I'm surprised but not surprised. All day yesterday I started to get the feeling that the opponents were too sure it would be stricken down.

Big win for Obama and a loss for the country IMHO.

The primary hope now is that it motivates people to get rid of Obama - a 2010 style reaction. Not sure that will be enough though.
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remains to be seen, I think. The law is being upheld as a tax; the Obama administration loudly proclaimed it wasn't a tax; now his campaign has to explain why this new tax (estimated at $500B per year) is good for the middle class.

also, the constitutional law professor has to spin the fact that SCOTUS saved the law on a basis that wasn't advanced by its attorneys or supporters.
 
#167
#167
utvolpj said:
if no one disputed it then why even rule on it? Of course it was disputed as to whether they could use their power to tax in such a manner (ie driving behavior)
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ACA proponents never advanced the taxing power basis. The reason, IMO, is that the law wouldn't have passed had it been called a tax.
 
#168
#168
utvolpj said:
if no one disputed it then why even rule on it? Of course it was disputed as to whether they could use their power to tax in such a manner (ie driving behavior)
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Because the dissent ostensibly ruled considering the commerce clause.

I meant there was little dispute that congress has power to levy almost any sort of tax they choose
 
#169
#169
CSpindizzy said:
Romney has stated he will repeal part - of course it takes more than him to repeal. Boehner has stated ALL needs to be repealed. The 26 and under living at home will beg to differ as well as those with previous conditions. Before coming out making idiotic statements they need to be mindful how they actually will be used against them on this issue. If they keep saying 'repeal ALL' this will give the Dems all they need to use this against the GOP. And the fact that none of the GOP leadership is unified means a muddled language for the campaign. Add the muddled immigration message and the American voter is less likely to want them back in power.
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Boehner and Romney have both said "repeal and replace." Neither has suggested the status quo. And honestly, it would be major political mistake to try and propose a new plan during the 4 months from now to November. The message has to be that this plan is wrong for the American people as a whole, and it needs to go down. Worry about the replacement later.
 
#170
#170
milohimself said:
Because the dissent ostensibly ruled considering the commerce clause.

I meant there was little dispute that congress has power to levy almost any sort of tax they choose
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the money quote I read this morning was, "the constitution ends where the internal revenue code begins"
 
#171
#171
lawgator1 said:
Avoiding the issue? ok.

Face it, Romney will get very little to no mileage out of this given his prior statements. And that is actually the case with a lot of things in this election.
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I am a voter and I want Obama care repealed and fixed. Obama wants to keep it. Romney passed a similar plan in Mass. but is now against it. Who do I vote for?

Face it, a large number of Americans hate this bill. It being allowed by the SC forces them to vote for Romney to have any chance for it to be repealed.
 
#173
#173
theutvolunteers said:
Easier said than done. A few people I graduated with have had a very difficult time with employment.
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even without a job, high deductible (catastrophic) insurance is pretty affordable.

[this assumes no PECs and the lack of need/desire for full insurance]
 
#175
#175
•Insurance companies must cover pre-existing conditions.
•Insurance companies are not allowed to limit lifetime coverage amounts
•Children can also stay on their parents’ insurance policies until age 26. That is already the law, and the court has ruled that must stand.
More than 50 million Americans currently do not have health insurance.
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Supreme Court Upholds Key Parts Of Health Care Law; Strikes Down Medicaid Portion | WHNT.com — Huntsville News & Weather from WHNT Television News19 HD

If the above points are already law, it is amazing to me 50 million still have no coverage.
 
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