Supreme Court upholds ObamaCare.

#202
#202
lawgator1 said:
How is Romney going to be in favor of repealing and replacing the main component of his own health care plan?
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It's like something out of a Shakespearian play.

Also ironic that Obama campaigned against a mandate in 2008.
 
#203
#203
TNGlen said:
How much did Romneycare cost anyone outside of Mass? Not an f'ing dime. Rommey has always stated that health care should be handled at the state level and isn't a Federal matter.
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I got a bridge to sell you if you believe that! I have already sold bridges to people that believed Bush would only appoint conservatives.
 
#204
#204
Velo Vol said:
It's like something out of a Shakespearian play.

Also ironic that Obama campaigned against a mandate in 2008.
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Not really ironic. Its politicians playing with others money. Some enjoy making sure they have more to play with.
 
#205
#205
Danl said:
Nice try, Velo, but the "Canadian healthcare is awful" meme just won't die with some.
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I'm sure it has problems, too. But my mom's family is from Canada and I've not heard them described it the way it is portrayed by some Americans who may or may not have ever set foot in Canada.
 
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#206
#206
Danl said:
OK. Do you think more people will be paying for the US's total healthcare with ACA? Or do you think that the same group that is currently paying for everyone's healthcare will just continue to do so.

I understand healthcare /= health insurance.
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It partially depends on the Medicaid ruling implications. Part of ACA forced states to expand eligibility for Medicaid. To the extent that happens then there are no new payers just new users (net use may increase or decrease).

So now we are down to the exchanges - the smart money for relatively healthy uninsured is to pay the fine then buy insurance when they get sick. Not sure that financially it will lessen the burden across other insured people.

Finally, insurance costs have necessarily gone up to account for the new benefits required by ACA. This too mitigates some of the cost sharing that supposedly would be passed onto the healthy uninsured.

In the end, I doubt it will do squat to lower the burden the insured carry for the uninsured. Given the goodies in it for everyone, it will likely have upward pressure on the insurance cost curve.

Worse, I think it greatly expands Congressional power over the people and even if repealed we've opened a pathway for Congress to get more involved in our lives than ever before.
 
#207
#207
Velo Vol said:
I'm sure it has problems, too. But my mom's family is from Canada and I've not heard them described it the way it is portrayed by some Americans who may or may not have ever set foot in Canada.
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Not as bad as characterized or as good as characterized. Same is true with U.S. HC and insurance.
 
#208
#208
rmsmith said:
Me too. I dont like being forced to do something. I see their point in doing it. (if everyone has insurance it'll drive costs down(or something like that)). but the mandate... ehhhh not so sure.
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These are my thoughts so far as well.
 
#209
#209
Well boys this sealed the deal for me.

I was already traveling to Makati next month to make the final decision but no need now. Went ahead and told them to prep the lease and install the T1s.

I'm out.
 
#210
#210
Danl said:
OK. Do you think more people will be paying for the US's total healthcare with ACA? Or do you think that the same group that is currently paying for everyone's healthcare will just continue to do so.

I understand healthcare /= health insurance.
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same group will pay, but will pay more because the bureaucracy level will double while the care will dwindle to some acceptable governmental level. Those living under a US gov't controlled delivery system can attest to its sorriness, regardless of the statistical gibberish being put out.
 
#212
#212
NEOCON said:
Well boys this sealed the deal for me.

I was already traveling to Makati next month to make the final decision but no need now. Went ahead and told them to prep the lease and install the T1s.

I'm out.
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I could have sworn I read posts by you earlier saying you were making the change, anyway. Are you saying that, had the ruling gone the other way you were going to stay?

I don;t think so. I think you are grandstanding and using a decision already made to try to make it look like the ruling had something to do with it.

Pretty obvious ploy, really.


BigPapaVol said:
same group will pay, but will pay more because the bureaucracy level will double while the care will dwindle to some acceptable governmental level. Those living under a US gov't controlled delivery system can attest to its sorriness, regardless of the statistical gibberish being put out.
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If that turns out to be the case, I will be happy to support repeal of the mandate and vote for people who will do so. I hope you are wrong, but if you are right, like I say, I would want it repealed.

But arguing that it is a bad idea and that it won't work is a lot different than saying it is unconstitutional. Justice Roberts saw the distinction.
 
#214
#214
lawgator1 said:
I could have sworn I read posts by you earlier saying you were making the change, anyway. Are you saying that, had the ruling gone the other way you were going to stay?

I don;t think so. I think you are grandstanding and using a decision already made to try to make it look like the ruling had something to do with it.

Pretty obvious ploy, really.





If that turns out to be the case, I will be happy to support repeal of the mandate and vote for people who will do so. I hope you are wrong, but if you are right, like I say, I would want it repealed.

But arguing that it is a bad idea and that it won't work is a lot different than saying it is unconstitutional. Justice Roberts saw the distinction.
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Give me a break
 
#216
#216
correct me if I'm wrong, but congress has always had broad taxing power. this decision didn't grant congress authority it didn't already have. the disappointing aspect of the opinion is that it gave the Administration the benefit of the doubt on an argument that wasn't advanced.

if the PPACA mandate was called a tax when it was being debated i'm very confident that it wouldn't have passed. it barely passed as it was written!

additionally, let's not forget that democrats and PPACA proponents hung their hats on the law being well within Congress's commerce clause powers. the court strongly rebuked this- that's a good thing.
 
#217
#217
lawgator1 said:
If that turns out to be the case, I will be happy to support repeal of the mandate and vote for people who will do so. I hope you are wrong, but if you are right, like I say, I would want it repealed.

But arguing that it is a bad idea and that it won't work is a lot different than saying it is unconstitutional. Justice Roberts saw the distinction.
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I didn't say it's unconstitutional, although Roberts clearly made new law today by declaring taxing inactivity legit.

Repealing an abortion like this when the ramp up of new guv't employees starts is impossible. I don't care what everyone in the world says, repealing this would take Herculean power, and neither party is amassing that again soon (I hope).

For my money, any program that cedes more power to the US Govt weakens the delivery. The lone place where that remains untrue is the military. Outside of there, I can't think of any service that the government competes well in.
 
#219
#219
Rasputin_Vol said:
I dont see how Romney can take advantage of this in November.
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If he doesn't hammer the enormous new tax burden, there is no other way. It's still formative, so it's hard to talk about the issues in more than hypothetical terms. The costs, OTOH, we know they'll be brutal because they're already coming to light. In fact, any estimate of the exorbitant new costs is still likely to be low.
 
#220
#220
BigPapaVol said:
I didn't say it's unconstitutional, although Roberts clearly made new law today by declaring taxing inactivity legit.

Repealing an abortion like this when the ramp up of new guv't employees starts is impossible. I don't care what everyone in the world says, repealing this would take Herculean power, and neither party is amassing that again soon (I hope).

For my money, any program that cedes more power to the US Govt weakens the delivery. The lone place where that remains untrue is the military. Outside of there, I can't think of any service that the government competes well in.
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+1
 
#222
#222
Danl said:
There is a large group of us that are already being forced to pay for all this healthcare for those that pay in nothing. Are you in this group?

If not, I can see your angst at maybe having to pay for some of your healthcare that I have been paying for.

BTW, I don't like the ACA or the decision by SCOTUS. But I don't live in a magical paradise built just for me.
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I'm not in this group, I already pay an excessive amount of taxes... what % rate did the colonies revolt over again?
 
#223
#223
lawgator1 said:
I could have sworn I read posts by you earlier saying you were making the change, anyway. Are you saying that, had the ruling gone the other way you were going to stay?

I don;t think so. I think you are grandstanding and using a decision already made to try to make it look like the ruling had something to do with it.

Pretty obvious ploy, really.





If that turns out to be the case, I will be happy to support repeal of the mandate and vote for people who will do so. I hope you are wrong, but if you are right, like I say, I would want it repealed.

But arguing that it is a bad idea and that it won't work is a lot different than saying it is unconstitutional. Justice Roberts saw the distinction.
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Honest answer:

I was 60/40 in favor of moving base operations but keeping the business domiciled in the US. But in the last couple quarters the income has begun to come from other places than the US, along with US money, and I have been weighing the need to be a US citizen or whether or nor I even want to live here anymore.

This sealed the deal for me moving all operations offshore but the passed weeks ruling on two different issues makes me wonder if this country is where I even want to live anymore and retain my US citizenship.


Not grand standing...just a little shocked at the ruling and saddened.
 
#224
#224
NEOCON said:
Well boys this sealed the deal for me.

I was already traveling to Makati next month to make the final decision but no need now. Went ahead and told them to prep the lease and install the T1s.

I'm out.
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2 questions:

1. If you are married, why take sand to the beach?
2. How much will your living expenses be per month?

Good luck...
 
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