Syrian Kurds are close to declaring Independence

#626
#626
Mick said:
Well you did say that then you mealy mouthed to rationalize Trump's decision. Right now I'm trying to figure out the world play, since NATO is sidelined.
What's your opinion on the world play? exclude any dem or trump ref. It you have that feeling, form it in the context of "We, the United States".
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You didn't reply, so I figure I'll answer anyway. The world play, outside of people (non-partisan statement as it's come from both sides of the political equation) screeching about how we "abandon" our allies, will be nothing. Minor bump in the road with no long term effects.

Why, that's silly you might say. People are saying how we left our friends to get slaughtered. Here's the deal...

I think other nations can see this is what happens when you decide to be allied with two different factions on two different sides of a fight. The fighting between the Kurds and the Turks far predates our involvement in the Middle East. It'll be going long after we leave. I think others can be objective and see this and see this is what happens when you try to balance between supporting two warring parties and massively fail. This is what happens when you try to play both sides.

Which is why you aren't seeing significant international condemnation of the move we made. More countries are blaming Turkey for their overly aggressive actions rather than us pulling out. They realize Erdogan is an a-hole and didn't need to do this. They also realize the fighters in Syria are linked to Turkey's own domestic terror groups. We tried supporting both, Turkey through preexisting treaty ties that have been in place almost 70 years and the Kurds through somewhat recent actions. However, we failed when one decided to start fighting and went after the other. The international community likely understands we were in a difficult position and had no good options when Erdogan invaded.

If we were fighting for the creation and preservation of an autonomous Kurdish state in northern Syria and possibly even Iraq, we might get more movement on the international "give-a-damn-meter" in regards to pulling back. But since we have no formal agreements with the SDF other than the ambiguous "removal of Assad and defeat of ISIS" that was put in place during the Obama Presidency (non-political statement, just a timeline for reference) we have not violated a treaty or refused to support anyone. The Kurd are not fighting for independence or to maintain their state from outside invaders. If anyone likely will be taking issue, it will be with Turkey violating the sovereign borders of another nation.

Anyway, nobody is not going to seek our help since we are still one of the big kids on the block. We still support others and have stood by our treaty commitments (even though they haven't been invoked). We'll still end up sending humanitarian aid when disaster strikes. We'll likely get involved in another fight eventually and this won't even be remembered except by the partisan few who want perpetual war in a place where we aren't wanted, don't need troops on the ground and don't have the constant state of potential engagement with another big boy on the block (Russia) looming over our heads.
 
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#628
#628
carlos86 said:
The average American can name a city in Afghanistan, name a terror group besides Al-Qaeda and can’t tell you the the strategic importance of U.S. troops in Syria.
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Then please tell us of the strategic importance of them being there.
 
#629
#629
Mick said:
Well you did say that then you mealy mouthed to rationalize Trump's decision. Right now I'm trying to figure out the world play, since NATO is sidelined.
What's your opinion on the world play? exclude any dem or trump ref. It you have that feeling, form it in the context of "We, the United States".
Click to expand...

The political side of this is ironic and hypocritical. Some of the very same Congress members and Senators that are screaming about us continuing involvement in Syria were the same ones screaming about a lack of Congressional approval in Libya in 2011 and never voted at all for military involvement in Syria.
 
#632
#632
tvolsfan said:
Huge difference between reducing our foreign involvement and simply moving our troops out of the way so Turkey can massacre our allies. That’s like defending enormous tax raises and then citing a poll and article saying “most Americans prefer a balanced budget.”

A poll more relevant to the discussion would be what percent of Americans think it’s okay to abandon the Kurds to slaughter with no tangible benefit to the United States?
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What benefit to the United States is it to arm and support the Kurds?

Kurdish independence is a very recent phenomenon in American foreign policy.
 
#633
#633
Rasputin_Vol said:
What benefit to the United States is it to arm and support the Kurds?

Kurdish independence is a very recent phenomenon in American foreign policy.
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All that is irrelevant. Trump moving our troops out of the way has nothing to do with that, which is why his attempts to justify it have received bi-partisan blowback.
 
#634
#634
tvolsfan said:
All that is irrelevant. Trump moving our troops out of the way has nothing to do with that, which is why his attempts to justify it have received bi-partisan blowback.
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Ever consider that both parties could be on the wrong side of this issue?
 
#636
#636
Rasputin_Vol said:
What benefit to the United States is it to arm and support the Kurds?

Kurdish independence is a very recent phenomenon in American foreign policy.
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The benefit is that we continue a perpetual state of warfare. It allows our defense industries to continue reaping the benefits of selling arms and equipment.

“War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses.
I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag.
I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.
There isn't a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It has its "finger men" to point out enemies, its "muscle men" to destroy enemies, its "brain men" to plan war preparations, and a "Big Boss" Super-Nationalistic-Capitalism.
It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty- three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.
I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.
I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912 (where have I heard that name before?). I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.
During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.”

-Marine Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler
 
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#650
#650
Grand Vol said:
No proof?

I figure if you're going to make such accusations, you might be able to provide some evidence?
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He spoke to Erdogan the day before. What do you think they talked about? If you feign inability to make the connection, that’s your own issue.
 
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