Syrian Kurds are close to declaring Independence

#1,154
#1,154
Grand Vol said:
The events were set in motion prior to. Erdogan was staging forces prior to that call (one of the links I posted).

Now, you are correct in asking who initiated the call. But the bigger question is, was Erdogan going to be stopped from pushing into Syria?

As I stated in another thread, you don't put on a condom unless you're about to screw. Erdogan was too politically invested in this to pull back. He pulls his military back, he loses a lot of cred back home. He had little other options except to go through with his threats.

Does make one wonder if this was known all along. As well as the ramifications of doing so (enumerated in the article)
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I have no doubt Pompeo will back up Trump's account, if it even matters. But if there truly is bad blood between Trump and Erdogan, the WH shouldn't be dumb enough to release a bogus account of the call.
 
#1,155
#1,155
zeppelin128 said:
What this article says to me is that Trump has been planning to hang the Kurds out to dry for two years and entrusted Edrogan to handle ISIS after we "won" that conflict.
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I have a different take. Especially given Trump declared we were withdrawing in December of last year.

I do find it funny:

Trump would tell Erdoğan that if he wanted to invade Syria he would have to own whatever mess ensued, according to these sources. Erdoğan would have to take care of ISIS and manage international condemnation, trouble from Capitol Hill, and the quagmire with the Kurds.
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Of which, all have happened (except the taking care of ISIS at the moment)
 
#1,159
#1,159
Stew Cook said:
I have no doubt Pompeo will back up Trump's account, if it even matters. But if there truly is bad blood between Trump and Erdogan, the WH shouldn't be dumb enough to release a bogus account of the call.
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Erdogan could have easily said "The United States gave me the go ahead to invade." It would have been up to Trump to prove him wrong.

But as you can see, that isn't quite the case. That whole "green light" scenario has been made up by our media.
 
#1,163
#1,163
Grand Vol said:
You know, I just don't need this.

I'm going to finish up the conversation with Stew and Zep, then I'll be done.
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Just ignore muck. There’s never anything of substance in his rants so why waste any effort unless you’re just having some S’s&G’s mocking his ignorant ass 🤷‍♂️
 
#1,164
#1,164
zeppelin128 said:
What this article says to me is that Trump has been planning to hang the Kurds out to dry for two years and entrusted Edrogan to handle ISIS after we "won" that conflict.
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You want to have a reasonable discussion about this or are we pretty much done?
 
#1,165
#1,165
Grand Vol said:
I have a different take. Especially given Trump declared we were withdrawing in December of last year.

I do find it funny:



Of which, all have happened (except the taking care of ISIS at the moment)
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That just means he stated he was planning to hang the Kurds out to dry in December. Which was his idea since 2017. He just wanted more time to "defeat" ISIS. Then he gives the green light to Turkey to invade, and now wants to sanction and destroy their economy for doing the exact thing Edrogan said he would do if we pulled out of northern Syria.

I'm no war hawk by any means, but this seems like a huge mistake by Trump. He can join the last 50 years of presidents screwing something up in the Middle East.
 
#1,166
#1,166
Grand Vol said:
You want to have a reasonable discussion about this or are we pretty much done?
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I thought we were being reasonable in our discussion. Your call.

It is a mess, and I don't envy Trump for having to navigate it. Especially since he is dealing with decades of screw ups in the Middle East. I just don't think he handled it well.
 
#1,168
#1,168
Grand Vol said:
Erdogan could have easily said "The United States gave me the go ahead to invade." It would have been up to Trump to prove him wrong.

But as you can see, that isn't quite the case. That whole "green light" scenario has been made up by our media.
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Well, there was a call initiated by one or the other. There was a subsequent announcement of withdraw of US forces, followed by the Turks moving in. Someone said "go" and I don't recall anyone saying "stop". Speculation on a green light seems more like semantics.
 
#1,169
#1,169
zeppelin128 said:
That just means he stated he was planning to hang the Kurds out to dry in December. Which was his idea since 2017. He just wanted more time to "defeat" ISIS. Then he gives the green light to Turkey to invade, and now wants to sanction and destroy their economy for doing the exact thing Edrogan said he would do if we pulled out of northern Syria.

I'm no war hawk by any means, but this seems like a huge mistake by Trump. He can join the last 50 years of presidents screwing something up in the Middle East.
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I think you and I can both agree Trump probably had no idea who or where the Kurds were in 2017 during those initial talks.
 
#1,170
#1,170
zeppelin128 said:
I thought we were being reasonable in our discussion. Your call.

It is a mess, and I don't envy Trump for having to navigate it. Especially since he is dealing with decades of screw ups in the Middle East. I just don't think he handled it well.
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No, I'm asking if you feel we have anything else to discuss on the matter in a polite fashion.
 
#1,173
#1,173
Stew Cook said:
Well, there was a call initiated by one or the other. There was a subsequent announcement of withdraw of US forces, followed by the Turks moving in. Someone said "go" and I don't recall anyone saying "stop". Speculation on a green light seems more like semantics.
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Erdogan said "go" since he was too far into this to turn back.

I think Trump finally let him have his Tar Baby. And, as stated, he has to own it now. I have this feeling the sanctions we put today won't be the last to come before this week is over.
 
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