Syrian Kurds are close to declaring Independence

[NorthDallas40]

I'll give you that, and add we never should have toppled Saddam.

Yep agree on both accounts. If we were gonna over throw his ass should have done it in 91. After not doing it then we had no right to invade in 03 as far as I’m concerned. We were the clear aggressor.

 

[Hunerwadel]

IDGAF about who does what as long as we (The United States) isn't wasting more blood and treasure over there.

That's almost exactly what I said a few days ago. We've been flailing and floundering around over there since the post Shah days. We have spent (owe) Trillions and don't have any more real influence now than we did then. If we leave and Russia fills the void do you think they will fare any better than we did? If they try to take over their politics and defy the people it will be them facing IEDs, roadside, bombs and hit and run snipers. They will be just like we have been. Not safe anywhere except behind their barbed wire perimeters. They will spend their money and lose their soldiers just like we have. Get the hell out of there and let the law of the jungle rule the region.

 

[carlos86]

No. That isn’t what the thread said. All of the parties really don’t like each other anyway but they hate ISIS more, for varying reasons. So let them kill ISIS and maybe along the way kill a bit of each other too!

As long as we aren’t involved go nuts!

That’s not going to happen. Putin is too smart to let that happen. They will slowly get rid of ISIS. Syria will consolidate its power. Iran will build more bases in Syria, Putin will broker a deal between Assad and Erdogan and Putin will go back to Moscow and proclaim that Russia did wha the imperialist Americans could not by defeating ISIS.

 

[NorthDallas40]

That’s not going to happen. Putin is too smart to let that happen. They will slowly get rid of ISIS. Syria will consolidate its power. Iran will build more bases in Syria, Putin will broker a deal between Assad and Erdogan and Putin will go back to Moscow and proclaim that Russia did wha the imperialist Americans could not by defeating ISIS.

Works for me!

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

So we, as a country, shouldn't be concerned about Russia expanding its influence? JMO, but that is something that should always be concerning. History has taught us to be wary of such happenings.

What are you afraid of Russia doing if they expand their influence?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

That's almost exactly what I said a few days ago. We've been flailing and floundering around over there since the post Shah days. We have spent (owe) Trillions and don't have any more real influence now than we did then. If we leave and Russia fills the void do you think they will fare any better than we did? If they try to take over their politics and defy the people it will be them facing IEDs, roadside, bombs and hit and run snipers. They will be just like we have been. Not safe anywhere except behind their barbed wire perimeters. They will spend their money and lose their soldiers just like we have. Get the hell out of there and let the law of the jungle rule the region.

Exactly.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I hope our nukes are out of Incirlik. Erdogan wants his Ottoman Empire, including parts of Iraq.

Erdogan Holding 50 US Tactical Nukes 'Hostage' As Trump Authorizes Sanctions

Those weapons, one senior official said, were now essentially Erdogan’s hostages. To fly them out of Incirlik would be to mark the de facto end of the Turkish-American alliance. To keep them there, though, is to perpetuate a nuclear vulnerability that should have been eliminated years ago.

 

[Velo Vol]

Was there a formal handover ceremony where they lowered the American flag and raised a Russian one?

 

[Carl Pickens]

Years ago I had a personal lines agency with a partner. His office was right next to mine so I could easily hear his conversations. If you wrote one Kurd they’d refer everyone they knew to you... literally.
One day three Kurdish guys come in to see him. The company we worked for was Shelter. They sat down and started talking in broken English about “where come from shetter is place”... “yes shetter give help”....”shetter like help you know”..... then I hear my partner say ..... “wait..... who is shitter?”

I started laughing

The Kurds then were all three talking at the same time “no no no shetter! Shetter!”.....

 

[carlos86]

That's almost exactly what I said a few days ago. We've been flailing and floundering around over there since the post Shah days. We have spent (owe) Trillions and don't have any more real influence now than we did then. If we leave and Russia fills the void do you think they will fare any better than we did? If they try to take over their politics and defy the people it will be them facing IEDs, roadside, bombs and hit and run snipers. They will be just like we have been. Not safe anywhere except behind their barbed wire perimeters. They will spend their money and lose their soldiers just like we have. Get the hell out of there and let the law of the jungle rule the region.

The Russians will actually have a better chance because there will be no opposition except ISIS. Syria, Russia, and Iran will consolidate their power and fill the power vacuum that we left. Putin will also have a better chance because he doesn't care how many Russians die. To him his Geopolitcal objectives outweigh any body count. And if they do take casualties they will be mitigated by the use of Russian mercenaries, Putin has always been in it to win it all.

 

[carlos86]

Works for me!

Thank God you weren't running American foreign policy in the 1930s and 40s.

 

[carlos86]

 

[NorthDallas40]

Thank God you weren't running American foreign policy in the 1930s and 40s.

Knock off the hyperbole. Last I checked the Syrians weren’t about to over take all of Europe and actually threaten our sovereign existence. What a chicken **** reply Carlos.

 

[carlos86]

Knock off the hyperbole. Last I checked the Syrians weren’t about to over take all of Europe and actually threaten our sovereign existence. What a chicken **** reply Carlos.

I guess I could have just been more direct and hit you with Robert Gilpin's Hegemonic stability theory.

 

[golfballs]

 

[NorthDallas40]

I guess I could have just been more direct and hit you with Robert Gilpin's Hegemonic stability theory.

I’m sure you will continue to throw whatever rhetoric you can to try and make people think involving our military in civil war is righteous and just and in the lesser dominant parties self interest. Btw how did Gilpin feel about the 2003 invasion of Iraq?

Edit: I know how he felt. I went and looked up the article. Enjoy.

SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class research journals

 

[VolnJC]

Agreed. This is where our so called "principles" get in our way of making smart decisions.

 

[Stew Cook]

I’m sure you will continue to throw whatever rhetoric you can to try and make people think involving our military in civil war is righteous and just and in the lesser dominant parties self interest. Btw how did Gilpin feel about the 2003 invasion of Iraq?

So, does a civil war only occur within established borders, or do we bow out of every regional conflict with a long history of tribal/religious conflicts?

 

[NorthDallas40]

So, does a civil war only occur within established borders, or do we bow out of every regional conflict with a long history of tribal/religious conflicts?

So a civil war by its very definition implies insurrection with a sovereign entities own population does it not? And in your second statement it sounds like you’re selling carlos’s we’re only meddling for their own good because we’re big and strong and know what’s best mentality.

 

[Stew Cook]

So a civil war by its very definition implies insurrection with a sovereign entities own population does it not? And in your statement sentence it sounds like you’re selling carlos’s we’re only meddling for their own good because we’re big and strong and know what’s best mentality.

No, not really, on the selling Carlos's take. I was more interested if you thought border disputes were technically still a civil war, if the wars/skirmishes predate someone declaring sovereign borders.

 

[NorthDallas40]

No, not really, on the selling Carlos's take. I was more interested if you thought border disputes were technically still a civil war, if the wars/skirmishes predate someone declaring sovereign borders.

I honestly don’t know how a one size fits all answer can be given. Do I think they are a civil war? No. Could exiled nationals operate from across an adjacent border to promote civil unrest? Sure. I don’t know that is the issue in every case however. For example look at Kashmir. As was explained to me by an Indian coworker yesterday everything was fine until the damn Brit’s moved people for the sake of religious alignment. And nobody has gotten any peace since. His opinion not mine. But you could use that as an example of an ongoing border skirmish exacerbated by people exiled from their former residences?

 

[carlos86]

I’m sure you will continue to throw whatever rhetoric you can to try and make people think involving our military in civil war is righteous and just and in the lesser dominant parties self interest. Btw how did Gilpin feel about the 2003 invasion of Iraq?

Edit: I know how he felt. I went and looked up the article. Enjoy.

SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class research journals

His analysis of what lead to the Iraq War was correct just like he is correct that once a hegemon lacks the will to lead, and the capability to enforce international laws and standards the international order goes into chaos.

 

[Stew Cook]

I honestly don’t know how a one size fits all answer can be given. Do I think they are a civil war? No. Could exiled nationals operate from across an adjacent border to promote civil unrest? Sure. I don’t know that is the issue in every case however. For example look at Kashmir. As was explained to me by an Indian coworker yesterday everything was fine until the damn Brit’s moved people for the sake of religious alignment. And nobody has gotten any peace since. His opinion not mine. But you could use that as an example of an ongoing border skirmish exacerbated by people exiled from their former residences?

Considering the redrawing of ME borders by western nations has created more problems than it has ever solved. I think just washing hands of the whole mess is a convenient cop out. At the very least, I'm not sure how we, with a straight face, say "respect the borders"

 

[NorthDallas40]

His analysis of what lead to the Iraq War was correct just like he is correct that once a hegemon lacks the will to lead, and the capability to enforce international laws and standards the international order goes into chaos.

You’re still trying to rationalize it’s ok and righteous even for us to fill a power vacuum... even if we had a hand in creating it. And we de facto DID create it in Iraq. GTFO with that war hawk rationalization. You can and we in fact have used that rationale to maintain a constant state of war for 18+ years now.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Considering the redrawing of ME borders by western nations has created more problems than it has ever solved. I think just washing hands of the whole mess is a convenient cop out. At the very least, I'm not sure how we, with a straight face, say "respect the borders"

So this is about Israel and Palestine?