Taking bets, placing odds on the VP debate...

[rjd970]

It's not an issue of is his plan good/bad or indifferent. It is a matter of him spinning his plan to create outcomes it simply will not create.

I agree, and McCain is spinning his, and so is every other politician. The difference is Palin isn't spinning a thing. She is flat out saying "Well, yes Kaite, where exactly does Putin fly over when he leaves Russian airspace?", "Of course this is a national security credential".

Here is the difference, again:

Now, the question is. Does he [Obama] know full well his description isn't accurate or not?

I would say he does know it could be inaccurate, just like with a lot of his policies, but he is spinning a political story. His defense of his economic plan and other ideas is no different than McCain's. Just as you said, all politicians do this.

Does Palin know full well that her proximity to Russia is not foreign policy experience or not.

I don't think she has the slightest clue that this is not a legitimate national security credential. Instead of spinning the stance with Couric, she defended it, again:

Well, it certainly does, because our, our next-door neighbors are foreign countries, there in the state that I am the executive of. And there.......We have trade missions back and forth, we do. It's very important when you consider even national security issues with Russia. As Putin rears his head and comes into the air space of the United States of America, where do they go? It's Alaska. It's just right over the border. It is from Alaska that we send those out to make sure that an eye is being kept on this very powerful nation, Russia, because they are right there, they are right next to our state.

This is far from political spin, and she even said in the interview that she didn't understand why she was being mocked for this view. She really believe this.

BPV can call this argument (if he can even understand it) pathetic all he wants if it makes him feel better. It is still valid.

 

[BigPapaVol]

BPV can call this argument (if he can even understand it) pathetic all he wants if it makes him feel better. It is still valid.

I didn't say the argument is invalid. I said you're missing the point that you can't have it both ways. The point about Palin is clearly valid, but equally clearly superfluous.

I like your Obama-like determination to stick on point even though you know you're making no sense. Admirable trait. When we have a VN election, you're going to walk away with the prize.

 

[volinbham]

I agree, and McCain is spinning his, and so is every other politician. The difference is Palin isn't spinning a thing. She is flat out saying "Well, yes Kaite, where exactly does Putin fly over when he leaves Russian airspace?", "Of course this is a national security credential".

Here is the difference, again:



I would say he does know it could be inaccurate, just like with a lot of his policies, but he is spinning a political story. His defense of his economic plan and other ideas is no different than McCain's. Just as you said, all politicians do this.




I don't think she has the slightest clue that this is not a legitimate national security credential. Instead of spinning the stance with Couric, she defended it, again:



This is far from political spin, and she even said in the interview that she didn't understand why she was being mocked for this view. She really believe this.

BPV can call this argument (if he can even understand it) pathetic all he wants if it makes him feel better. It is still valid.

I stand by my point. Of course she's spinning. If she backed off now, it would be even worse. You are making a massive assumption that she's an idiot because she's selling some BS. I don't believe she actually believes this is foreign policy experience any more than Obama thinks campaigning qualifies as executive experience. She built a trap for herself and is taking the best approach to minimize the damage - a common problem/solution for politicians.

 

[MontereyVol]

I didn't say the argument is invalid. I said you're missing the point that you can't have it both ways. The point about Palin is clearly valid, but equally clearly superfluous.

I like your Obama-like determination to stick on point even though you know you're making no sense. Admirable trait. When we have a VN election, you're going to walk away with the prize.

Why was I not informed! Who is running? and how can I make them look bad....

 

[rjd970]

I didn't say the argument is invalid. I said you're missing the point that you can't have it both ways. The point about Palin is clearly valid, but equally clearly superfluous.

I like your Obama-like determination to stick on point even though you know you're making no sense. Admirable trait. When we have a VN election, you're going to walk away with the prize.

I am not having it both ways. Does it really make you feel better to say this over and over again? I am not having it both ways. AGAIN....so.....you....can......understand.....it:

Obama - Spin, knows he could be wrong, no different than McCain or anybody else

Palin - Outright defense, knows her view is right because of reasons a....b.....c...etc.

If Palin came out in the Couric interview and said something along the lines of "Well, Katie, that was kind of taken out of context, this is what I really meant"....that would be one thing. But she clearly didn't do that. She came out swinging talking about Putin and trade missions.

For me to have it both ways both candidates would have to be doing the same thing. Is it really that hard to see where I am drawing the distinction?

 

[BigPapaVol]

Why was I not informed! Who is running? and how can I make them look bad....

don't bother voting, it's going to be a landslide.

 

[OrangeEmpire]

I want to be the Bootie Inspector General.

 

[BigPapaVol]

I am not having it both ways. Does it really make you feel better to say this over and over again? I am not having it both ways. AGAIN....so.....you....can......understand.....it:

Obama - Spin, knows he could be wrong, no different than McCain or anybody else

Palin - Outright defense, knows her view is right because of reasons a....b.....c...etc.

this is the problem with your whole argument. You're either calling him a liar, which VBH and I both said is a distinct possibility, or admitting that he is engaging in the exact same tactic.

Your assumption about Palin is equally problematic. You have no idea, except that she defended it again with different reasoning. How does that even remotely validate what you're assuming?

Try again.

 

[rjd970]

this is the problem with your whole argument. You're either calling him a liar, which VBH and I both said is a distinct possibility, or admitting that he is engaging in the exact same tactic.

Your assumption about Palin is equally problematic. You have no idea, except that she defended it again with different reasoning. How does that even remotely validate what you're assuming?

Try again.

They are all liars (McCain, Obama, Biden, and Palin). But Palin isn't lying about what she said about where she lives. She really believes this nonsense is a legitimate credential.

 

[OrangeEmpire]

They are all liars (McCain, Obama, Biden, and Palin). But Palin isn't lying about what she said about where she lives. She really believes this nonsense is a legitimate credential.

That is actually pretty cool how you listed them in that order.

Freud would have a lot to say about that.....

 

[BigPapaVol]

They are all liars (McCain, Obama, Biden, and Palin). But Palin isn't lying about what she said about where she lives. She really believes this nonsense is a legitimate credential.

not a prayer.

There is also no chance that Obama believes being a commnuity organizer is relevant experience, but he continues to say it.
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[rjd970]

not a prayer.

There is also no chance that Obama believes being a commnuity organizer is relevant experience, but he continues to say it.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

BPV, in the interest of fairness...and because you obviously can't see what I am trying to say here...would it make you feel better if I found a similar instance with what Obama has said?

I thought it was idiotic when Obama suggested that because he has run a big campaign he has some legitimate executive experience. He defended this with facts about his budget, staff, etc...

I would say he really believes that nonsense, and the ridiculous facts he used to back them up.

To me that is different than him spinning economic policies and what not.

 

[BigPapaVol]

BPV, in the interest of fairness...and because you obviously can't see what I am trying to say here...would it make you feel better if I found a similar instance with what Obama has said?

I thought it was idiotic when Obama suggested that because he has run a big campaign he has some legitimate executive experience. He defended this with facts about his budget, staff, etc...

I would say he really believes that nonsense, and the ridiculous facts he used to back them up.

I see what you're saying. I just think it's nonsensical. There is no possible way that Palin thinks proximity to Russia is a national security credential. Obama has nothing to do with that commentary.

Obama doesn't believe a word of that garbage about running a campaign, he's just saying something because it sounds better than nothing, similar to what Palin is doing. Defending the sttement is just weak rationalization and hope that people are stupid enough to buy it.

If either of them believes 50% of what they're saying, they're idiots and unworthy of the positions they seek. Doubly bad for Obama, since his only real qualification is his education.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[rjd970]

Doubly bad for Obama, since his only real qualification is his education.
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Yeah, intelligence is overrated. It seems especially so when politics are involved.

 

[MG1968]

Yeah, intelligence is overrated. It seems especially so when politics are involved.

intelligence has nothing to do with education

 

[lawgator1]

My predictions:

1) Both sides will claim victory.

2) Biden will be polite and smooth for the first 20 minutes, but he can't help himself. He will eventually turn back in to his smart alecky self. He will be impressive in his knowledge of specifics, but he will talk over people's heads for the most part. His supporters will say this shows he knows what he's talking about and his detractors will say he's arrogant and a bit of a show off and rude and condescending to Palin.

3) Palin will speak in broad generalizations. The Fox News ploy of intimidation of the moderator by questioning her bias will have worked and she will be deferential to Palin. After about 20 minutes, Palin will have run out of permutations of the four main sound bites she has in her arsenal, and she will become predictable and boring. Her supporters will say she showed she has confidence and understands the big picture. Her detractors will say she was overprepared and lacked specifics.

4) Everyone hoping for a train wreck by either candidate is going to be disappointed. Everyone hoping for a breakthgrough by either will be disappointed, though each will claim it occured.

5) SNL will do a skit, but it won't be very good because the reality is that this debate is going to be bland and vanilla as it gets, with Biden focusing on maintaining their lead, and Palin focused on not stepping in it.

 

[TIGER DEN]

{In fact, it would not surprise me if they place around her some sort of device by whuch they can shock her back into submission should she stray too far.}<------YOU At least check your spelling !!! What this election is about more than anything , is the difference between the GOP and the Democrats which is . As you so well put it , faith . The dems have a special way of looking at the world , well an example , Hustler , and Playboy . Like Obama when he said "I don't want my daughter to be punished with a baby if she makes a mistake " Wow ! He does not care about his grandkids does he ??The trashy side of human life . I am not sure that you even know where Knoxville is , do you know what state Knoxville is in ?? The GOP at least leans more to the view of the preachers . I bet you read a lot , looking at pictures with your tongue hanging out !!!!!:dance2: Clinton may replace Biden ,he has been biden his time :clapping: he is rather stupid . Example = During a visit to Columbia, Mo., Biden shouted to one of the assembled Democratic faithful, “Chuck, stand up, let the people see you.” The thing is, Missouri state Sen. Chuck Graham uses a wheelchair. The Democratic vice presidential nominee followed up with, “Oh, God love you. What am I talking about? I’ll tell you what, you’re making everybody else stand up, old pal. I’ll tell you what, everybody else stand up for Chuck. Stand up for Chuck!”+++Wednesday in New Hampshire, he said, “Hillary Clinton is as qualified or more qualified than I am to be vice president of the United States of America. Quite frankly, it might have been a better pick than me.” And in Florida recently, he referred to “the Biden administration.” he Biden is colorful.YouTube - Biden's Kennedy Confusion So is Obama >>>YouTube - Obama Calls Himself President in Terre Haute, IN Obama is gald you are fired up YouTube - Barack Obama and Joe Biden Gaffe Machines I think Sara will do just fine I am voting for Sara, not against Obama but for Sara. I would like to be able to bid on Air Force One !!

I find it hilarious that the media tries make Palin seem stupid , but quickly forgets OBAMA has visited all 57 states with the exception of Hawaii & Alaska .:blink: