Talent in First Year: Butch vs. Dooley vs. Kiffin

#27
#27
utvolkyle06 said:
None of this matters. Over the last year I keep seeing that CBJ gets it and is a winner everywhere has been and has assembled a great coaching staff. So, we should at least have a winning season and only get better and better each year.
So me worry? Naw.
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Agree totally...While no one but an idiot would say that talent is insignificant, coaching is the determining variable....The General never heard of a 4-5 star player and he did o.k. Also, when Dickey came in the mid 60's the talent level was probably as low as it has been in 75 years but he began to win from the first...Butch will win by getting the most out of his talent and when that talent level rises he will be the talk of the nation...
 
#29
#29
the only problem with this post is that it is completely BS and while looks great in a math world holds no relevance to anything

You have a weight of 72.5% given to upperclassmen - if you watched TN in the first years of Kiffin and DD you know 72.5% of the contributions were not from upperclassmen

it is basically greatly overemphasizing the classes that were RS seniors, seniors, juniors - when DD and Kiffy took over those classes were largely nonexistent
 
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#30
#30
k-town_king said:
Butch easily has it the worst.
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there is just no way this is correct

DD inherited worse LB's, worse DL, worse secondary, far worse OL, considerably worse RB and had to start matt simms

im sure CBJ would love to have a qb but kiffy or DD didnt have a proven qb when they showed up - at least CBJ has some peeps on the DL and OL with talent and experience
 
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#31
#31
TUSKtimes said:
Coach Saban turned to Mal Moore and ask: "what do you think you've got with me as a coach? Moore said: "I think we've got the best coach in the country." Saban responded: "no you didn't. But you got the best damn recruiter that ever lived."

Just when mythology makes you feel you know something, here comes another dose of reality.
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Even GOD little nicky lost to college of the one eyed and one legged team of science his first year.
 
#32
#32
DiderotsGhost said:
Yes, I understand there is attrition. These numbers are obviously not infallible scientific facts. That's sort of how data works - there are always flaws.

Butch is dealing with attrition, too; in fact, he's probably had it worse than Dooley. Overall, even if you account for attrition, the three classes would probably come up about the same. The 2013 class is about as talented (on paper) as the 2010 class.
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Kiffin started two undersized walk ons on the OL because they were the best he had.
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#33
#33
Kiffin's class basically didn't exist by the time Dooley coached his first game. Dooley wasn't an amazing recruiter, but he didn't leave Jones with the kind of turd sandwich he inherited from Kiffin.
 
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#34
#34
DiderotsGhost said:
We're not building the Large Hadron Collider here, champ. This is a quick and dirty analysis of recruiting rankings. It took about 15 minutes to paste some rankings into Excel and get the averages.

If you want to do a PhD thesis on the most scientific way to evaluate college football talent based on recruiting rankings, go ahead and take the initiative.
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This is a common misconception but the document written for partial fulfillment of the Ph.D. is a dissertation. Theses are produced in conjunction with Honors' undergraduate programs or, more typically, Masters' level programs. And, yes, there is a significant difference between the two. Dissertations are normally book-length manuscripts (250 pages or more) while theses entail somewhat less ambitious research projects.
 
#35
#35
terrypedigo said:
Even GOD little nicky lost to college of the one eyed and one legged team of science his first year.
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And since that time, amigo:
2008 - 12-2
2009 - 14-0 = NC
2010 - 10-3
2011 - 12-1 = NC
2012 - 13-1 = NC

Now that's some overachieving.
 
#36
#36
I feel like we have some of our strongest coaches aligned to our greatest areas of weakness (or inexperience) right now, which is helpful.

Azzanni = WRs

Bajakian = QBs

This will help our cause greatly, especially with the work ethic those two demand. So, I think we will be OK on offense.

We are thin in the secondary. That is really my main concern. If we can't get pressure again this year, we will be picked apart by opposing QBs.
 
#37
#37
SCvol333 said:
there is just no way this is correct

DD inherited worse LB's, worse DL, worse secondary, far worse OL, considerably worse RB and had to start matt simms

im sure CBJ would love to have a qb but kiffy or DD didnt have a proven qb when they showed up - at least CBJ has some peeps on the DL and OL with talent and experience
Click to expand...

Dooley didn't have to start with Matt Simms. All the players knew Bray was the better qb all spring and fall camp. Gerald Jones was shocked Bray wasn't starting game one.

DD also had playmakers, something this team desperarately needs. Jones would kill for a Denarius Moore or Janzen Jackson.

All those so called "worst" positions that Dooley inherited can be argued.

Runningback is a push

Secondary had Janzen Jackson and Art Evans(until he got suspended)

DL had Gerald Williams, Malik Jackson and Chris Walker.

The only ones that aren't debatable are oline and linebackers.
 
#38
#38
The bottom line is...
1. We have the coaches we have.
2. We have the players we have (or will have by fall).
3. We have the schedule we have.
...we need #1 to get #2 to "Give Their All" to take care of #3.

Go Big Orange!!!
 
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#39
#39
Easttnken said:
The bottom line is...
1. We have the coaches we have.
2. We have the players we have (or will have by fall).
3. We have the schedule we have.
...we need #1 to get #2 to "Give Their All" to take care of #3.

Go Big Orange!!!
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Zackly!

We have what we have in both coaches and players. It's up to the coaches to get the most out of the players whether they're 5* or 2*, it doesn't matter when the ball is kicked off.
 
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#41
#41
Boca Vol said:
Zackly!

We have what we have in both coaches and players. It's up to the coaches to get the most out of the players whether they're 5* or 2*, it doesn't matter when the ball is kicked off.
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Just for fun...just going on a gut feeling from what we've read, heard, or seen, which freshman/freshmen would figure to be a pleasant surprise be season's end?
 
#43
#43
SCvol333 said:
there is just no way this is correct

DD inherited worse LB's, worse DL, worse secondary, far worse OL, considerably worse RB and had to start matt simms

im sure CBJ would love to have a qb but kiffy or DD didnt have a proven qb when they showed up - at least CBJ has some peeps on the DL and OL with talent and experience
Click to expand...

Dooley inherited Bryce Brown at rb and Aaron Douglass on the line. He was an ass and loser and couldn't keep them. Our secondary is way worse. Look at last year. No Janzen Jacksons or D Myles. We don't have a proven qb now and Bray was better than anyone BJ inherited. BJ signed his two freshman qbs and didn't have one already on campus.
 
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#45
#45
DiderotsGhost said:
We're not building the Large Hadron Collider here, champ. This is a quick and dirty analysis of recruiting rankings. It took about 15 minutes to paste some rankings into Excel and get the averages.

If you want to do a PhD thesis on the most scientific way to evaluate college football talent based on recruiting rankings, go ahead and take the initiative.
Click to expand...

Yes but his analysis of said work was valid. Learn to take criticism dude and maybe try it instwof being offended. The numbers are vague and open to critique.
 
#46
#46
Jacksonvol said:
Agree totally...While no one but an idiot would say that talent is insignificant, coaching is the determining variable....The General never heard of a 4-5 star player and he did o.k. Also, when Dickey came in the mid 60's the talent level was probably as low as it has been in 75 years but he began to win from the first...Butch will win by getting the most out of his talent and when that talent level rises he will be the talk of the nation...
Click to expand...

That's called coaching. That's what CBJ brings to the table. This staff is coaching up these players as opposed to the half a@# coaching they have received. They are being taught to play the game of football with attention to detail. That's what's going to separate #117 from the last three years of misery.
 
#47
#47
Volosaurus rex said:
This is a common misconception but the document written for partial fulfillment of the Ph.D. is a dissertation. Theses are produced in conjunction with Honors' undergraduate programs or, more typically, Masters' level programs. And, yes, there is a significant difference between the two. Dissertations are normally book-length manuscripts (250 pages or more) while theses entail somewhat less ambitious research projects.
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This.
 
#48
#48
k-town_king said:
Butch easily has it the worst.
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Not serious are you? Neither Dooley nor Kiffin inherited a DL with talent or depth. Kiffin started two walk-ons on the OL... Dooley started 4 Fr and a Sr who could not beat those two walk ons out.

It is by no stretch an easy situation... but is is MUCH better than either of the other two.
 
#49
#49
Nb4 OskieVolum posts....

1. Kiffin left Dooley with a roster worst than the '92 SMU Mustangs coming off a 6 year NCAA "death penalty" sanction

and

2. Dooley left Butch a roster with more talent than the '85 Bears.
 
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