Tankers Attacked In Gulf: Price of Oil Up

#1,576
#1,576
Rasputin_Vol said:
Either you are naive or you are full of shiite. There is no way (at this point in time) that anyone with common sense believes that we targeted Saddam and Khaddafi just because they did "bad stuff".
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Dictators that starve their people while stealing the nations wealth and exterminating their citizens are the kind of bad stuff that make them targets. In your paranoid view of global affairs you confuse the diplomatic methods of changing behavior with the goals. We're pro-human rights and freedom. You don't like some of the methods used to push that agenda and confuse them with the ultimate goals.
 
#1,577
#1,577
Thunder Good-Oil said:
Dictators that starve their people while stealing the nations wealth and exterminating their citizens are the kind of bad stuff that make them targets. In your paranoid view of global affairs you confuse the diplomatic methods of changing behavior with the goals. We're pro-human rights and freedom. You don't like some of the methods used to push that agenda and confuse them with the ultimate goals.
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We need to mind our own business and to hell with changing behavior. If we are really as pro-freedom as you say, then why not start spreading some of that freedom here at home first before we go poking our noses in other people's affairs. I'm sure we could use that same energy and effort right here in America to defend our 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 8th and 9th amendment rights here.
 
#1,578
#1,578
Rasputin_Vol said:
We need to mind our own business and to hell with changing behavior. If we are really as pro-freedom as you say, then why not start spreading some of that freedom here at home first before we go poking our noses in other people's affairs. I'm sure we could use that same energy and effort right here in America to defend our 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 8th and 9th amendment rights here.
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RAS you are correct on a lot of your points. What you fail to realize is you have a massive credibility problem. You act as if Assad and Putin were actually Democratically elected. You never throw shade at Russia. Ever. And you rail against US media but routinely publish openly state ran media articles from Russia as fact.
 
#1,579
#1,579
volfanhill said:
RAS you are correct on a lot of your points. What you fail to realize is you have a massive credibility problem. You act as if Assad and Putin were actually Democratically elected. You never throw shade at Russia. Ever. And you rail against US media but routinely publish openly state ran media articles from Russia as fact.
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I don't care as much about how they were elected as much as I care about us keeping our troops out of these areas halfway around the globe while we have more pressing issues right here at home.
 
#1,580
#1,580
volfanhill said:
RAS you are correct on a lot of your points. What you fail to realize is you have a massive credibility problem. You act as if Assad and Putin were actually Democratically elected. You never throw shade at Russia. Ever. And you rail against US media but routinely publish openly state ran media articles from Russia as fact.
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I guess I hold our media to a higher standard since everyone seems to think that our media is top notch. All I do is basically offer a counter-narrative and see if you all can look at both sides and determine which sides makes the most sense.
 
#1,582
#1,582
Rasputin_Vol said:
I guess I hold our media to a higher standard since everyone seems to think that our media is top notch. All I do is basically offer a counter-narrative and see if you all can look at both sides and determine which sides makes the most sense.
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That’s not what you do. You act as though what they say is fact while always doubting ours. Doubt ours all you want. And I think very few people think our media is too notch. On either side.
 
#1,583
#1,583
Rasputin_Vol said:
We need to mind our own business and to hell with changing behavior. If we are really as pro-freedom as you say, then why not start spreading some of that freedom here at home first before we go poking our noses in other people's affairs. I'm sure we could use that same energy and effort right here in America to defend our 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 8th and 9th amendment rights here.
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It's all our business. Our footprint covers the entire planet. We protect and enable commerce everywhere. We are the leaders in the oil, defense, financial, tech, healthcare, and many other industries. We rightfully protect our assets (and our citizens) whether they're located inside or outside of our borders.

We're also civilized. I also have no issue with us stepping up when people suffer whether it's due to diseases, natural disasters, or lunatic dictators. I have no issue sticking our nose into other nation's dust ups when it spills over beyond their borders either.

Domestic issues are separate. Which nation's citizen's enjoy more freedom than ours? However, we should never take away a citizen's freedom because they use or trade a plant. But it takes time for common sense to work it's way through our system of laws. Morality enforcement was a pillar of the Conservative platform 35 years ago. Ed Meese, Nancy Reagan, Jerry Fallwell, Pat Robertson... all of their and other's nonsense takes a long time to fade away. I think that we're doing much better in terms of rogue police enforcement in just a few years thanks to the proliferation of cameras. Cops haven't been committing the high profile killings like they were not long ago over things like loose cigarette sales. So what other domestic freedoms are you concerned about? Taxing (especially as a method of wealth redistribution) and wasteful spending probably fits by my definition.
 
#1,584
#1,584
Thunder Good-Oil said:
It's all our business. Our footprint covers the entire planet. We protect and enable commerce everywhere. We are the leaders in the oil, defense, financial, tech, healthcare, and many other industries. We rightfully protect our assets (and our citizens) whether they're located inside or outside of our borders.

We're also civilized. I also have no issue with us stepping up when people suffer whether it's due to diseases, natural disasters, or lunatic dictators. I have no issue sticking our nose into other nation's dust ups when it spills over beyond their borders either.

Domestic issues are separate. Which nation's citizen's enjoy more freedom than ours? However, we should never take away a citizen's freedom because they use or trade a plant. But it takes time for common sense to work it's way through our system of laws. Morality enforcement was a pillar of the Conservative platform 35 years ago. Ed Meese, Nancy Reagan, Jerry Fallwell, Pat Robertson... all of their and other's nonsense takes a long time to fade away. I think that we're doing much better in terms of rogue police enforcement in just a few years thanks to the proliferation of cameras. Cops haven't been committing the high profile killings like they were not long ago over things like loose cigarette sales. So what other domestic freedoms are you concerned about? Taxing (especially as a method of wealth redistribution) and wasteful spending probably fits by my definition.
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The Garner case was not a killing over loose cigarette sales. Please stop mischaracterizing what happened.
 
#1,585
#1,585
Thunder Good-Oil said:
Domestic issues are separate. Which nation's citizen's enjoy more freedom than ours? However, we should never take away a citizen's freedom because they use or trade a plant. But it takes time for common sense to work it's way through our system of laws. Morality enforcement was a pillar of the Conservative platform 35 years ago. Ed Meese, Nancy Reagan, Jerry Fallwell, Pat Robertson... all of their and other's nonsense takes a long time to fade away. I think that we're doing much better in terms of rogue police enforcement in just a few years thanks to the proliferation of cameras. Cops haven't been committing the high profile killings like they were not long ago over things like loose cigarette sales. So what other domestic freedoms are you concerned about? Taxing (especially as a method of wealth redistribution) and wasteful spending probably fits by my definition.
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35 years ago? Try doubling those years when Allan Dulles and John Foster Dulles first began to blend The State Department, CIA and crony capitalism into our foreign policy.

The CIA has been an extension of the State Department ever since.
 
#1,587
#1,587
Thunder Good-Oil said:
It's all our business. Our footprint covers the entire planet. We protect and enable commerce everywhere. We are the leaders in the oil, defense, financial, tech, healthcare, and many other industries. We rightfully protect our assets (and our citizens) whether they're located inside or outside of our borders.

We're also civilized. I also have no issue with us stepping up when people suffer whether it's due to diseases, natural disasters, or lunatic dictators. I have no issue sticking our nose into other nation's dust ups when it spills over beyond their borders either.

Domestic issues are separate. Which nation's citizen's enjoy more freedom than ours? However, we should never take away a citizen's freedom because they use or trade a plant. But it takes time for common sense to work it's way through our system of laws. Morality enforcement was a pillar of the Conservative platform 35 years ago. Ed Meese, Nancy Reagan, Jerry Fallwell, Pat Robertson... all of their and other's nonsense takes a long time to fade away. I think that we're doing much better in terms of rogue police enforcement in just a few years thanks to the proliferation of cameras. Cops haven't been committing the high profile killings like they were not long ago over things like loose cigarette sales. So what other domestic freedoms are you concerned about? Taxing (especially as a method of wealth redistribution) and wasteful spending probably fits by my definition.[/QUOT
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#1,588
#1,588
lawgator1 said:
The Garner case was not a killing over loose cigarette sales. Please stop mischaracterizing what happened.
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The police response was over the top. Why did the cops choke him out? What about the guy walking away outside of a store with his headphones on as a cop pulls up and shoots him in the back? The point is, with cameras everywhere, tyrant cops are being weeded out.
 
#1,590
#1,590
Thunder Good-Oil said:
The police response was over the top. Why did the cops choke him out? What about the guy walking away outside of a store with his headphones on as a cop pulls up and shoots him in the back? The point is, with cameras everywhere, tyrant cops are being weeded out.
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That's a terrible comparison and you know it. Garner physically resisted arrest.
 
#1,591
#1,591
Thunder Good-Oil said:
The police response was over the top. Why did the cops choke him out? What about the guy walking away outside of a store with his headphones on as a cop pulls up and shoots him in the back? The point is, with cameras everywhere, tyrant cops are being weeded out.
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You obviously haven't been to the "Protect and Serve" thread. Cops are shooting the hell out of dogs and white folks.
 
#1,593
#1,593
Rasputin_Vol said:
35 years ago? Try doubling those years when Allan Dulles and John Foster Dulles first began to blend The State Department, CIA and crony capitalism into our foreign policy.

The CIA has been an extension of the State Department ever since.
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I'm speaking if the Moral Majority. It was a backward movement. The CIA and other overstepping agencies are a different issue. The CIA's purpose is actually to protect Americans. The Just Say No crowd was about pushing their morales.
 
#1,594
#1,594
Rasputin_Vol said:
You obviously haven't been to the "Protect and Serve" thread. Cops are shooting the hell out of dogs and white folks.
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I've seen them routinely go on private property and blow away pets. I'd fire every damn one of them that overreacted or invaded property where they had no business with the presence. What are the statistics on frequency now as opposed to a decade ago? It's more shocking now with the videos. But I bet the frequency is actually less.
 
#1,596
#1,596
Thunder Good-Oil said:
I'm speaking if the Moral Majority. It was a backward movement. The CIA and other overstepping agencies are a different issue. The CIA's purpose is actually to protect Americans. The Just Say No crowd was about pushing their morales.
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Really? By selling drugs in America to fund their covert support of the Contras? Oh, how about the deal they brokered with Iran where they sold arms to Iran (with the help of Israel) and used the proceeds from those sales to fund the Contras?
Hell, what about the arms shipped from Egypt (Muslim Brotherhood) to Libya (overthrow of Khaddafi) to Turkey that ended up going to the Free Syrian Army? The death of Ambassador Steven's was a way to try to cover up the arms shipments.
 
#1,597
#1,597
Rasputin_Vol said:
Really? By selling drugs in America to fund their covert support of the Contras? Oh, how about the deal they brokered with Iran where they sold arms to Iran (with the help of Israel) and used the proceeds from those sales to fund the Contras?
Hell, what about the arms shipped from Egypt (Muslim Brotherhood) to Libya (overthrow of Khaddafi) to Turkey that ended up going to the Free Syrian Army? The death of Ambassador Steven's was a way to try to cover up the arms shipments.
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They have their methods. But the bottom line is they work to protect us. How much of that was before social media?
 
#1,599
#1,599
Rasputin_Vol said:
We armed the Mujahedeen and then we fight the Mujahedeen (Taliban).

We arm Saddam and then we fight Saddam.

We arm Turkey and then???
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The pieces get moved around the chess board. The enemy (Iraq) of my enemy (Iran) is my friend.

The Soviets were a bigger threat than Osama... so he got weapons.

You'd make a piss poor double agent.
 
#1,600
#1,600
Thunder Good-Oil said:
The pieces get moved around the chess board. The enemy (Iraq) of my enemy (Iran) is my friend.

The Soviets were a bigger threat than Osama... so he got weapons.

You'd make a piss poor double agent.
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I would be a genius in comparison to the guys we've had running the show since WWII. We have very few foreign policy success stories that we can hang our hats on.
 
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