Tee Martin in 1998

#101
#101
So when you are looking at a QB and judging how good he is, what criteria do you use?

Passing yards?
Average yards per attempt?
Completion percentage?
Total TDs? Total INTs?
 
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#102
#102
LAVol1 said:
That "blah" offense averaged 435 yds per game.
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You do realize that we came within a whisker of losing 5 games with 9 future NFL starters in the 2 deep just on offense? The offense was pedestrian at best and flat out awful at worst against the best teams on the schedule. We rolled it up against the bad teams and really struggled against the best. Defense won that natty not the offense.
 
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#103
#103
BernardKingGOAT said:
The omission of Clausen and Scott is puzzling. Dobbs might be top ten. Might
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Omission of Clausen: Sr. Yr. 56.6% completion %, 2968 yds., 27 TD, 9 INT, -45 yds. Rushing
Inclusion of Dobbs: Sr. Yr. 63% completion %, 2946 yds., 27 TD, 12 INT, 831 yds rushing, 13 TD.

Both great leaders, but Dobbs rushing stats makes him the easy choice over Clausen. It would also contend that Clausen had much better OL than Dobbs during their careers, which further solidifies the case for Dobbs.

Loved Bobby Scott, but Dobbs was the better college QB. I rate Holloway better than Scott and Clausen.
 
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#104
#104
#105
#105
That man had swagger! Great team around him and he was the General. Inconsistent at times but always gave it his all and kept his confidence. Love him!!!
 
#106
#106
LAVol1 said:
Omission of Clausen: Sr. Yr. 56.6% completion %, 2968 yds., 27 TD, 9 INT, -45 yds. Rushing
Inclusion of Dobbs: Sr. Yr. 63% completion %, 2946 yds., 27 TD, 12 INT, 831 yds rushing, 13 TD.

Both great leaders, but Dobbs rushing stats makes him the easy choice over Clausen. It would also contend that Clausen had much better OL than Dobbs during their careers, which further solidifies the case for Dobbs.

Loved Bobby Scott, but Dobbs was the better college QB. I rate Holloway better than Scott and Clausen.
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So you're using stats? LOL.....Clausen won AT Alabama twice, AT Florida twice. Easy choice for YOU. I rate Dobbs around 10
 
#107
#107
Hacksaw said:
I don't know that I would put Tee in the all-time top ten. In no particular order, Manning, Clausen, Ainge, Bray, Holloway, Kelly, Robinson, Shuler, Hooker and Dobbs were arguably more talented. And what about Dewey Warren, Jimmy Streater and Bobby Scott? To me, Tee is more comparable to Bubba Wyche or Daryl Dickey. No disrespect to any of those great Vol names.

Tee gets a lot of credit for the national title, as he should. Your point about team chemistry is absolutely right. He was the right guy at the right time on the right team. But personally, I was surprised when he was drafted into the NFL -- happy for him, but surprised.
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Tony Robinson was the best pure athlete we’ve ever had at Tennessee.
 
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#109
#109
BernardKingGOAT said:
So you're using stats? LOL.....Clausen won AT Alabama twice, AT Florida twice. Easy choice for YOU. I rate Dobbs around 10
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lol. You are joking right?

2001 Bama- Dennis Franchione went 4-4 in SEC and 7-5 overall. Finished unranked. We won 35-24.

2003 Bama- Mike Shula went 2-6 in SEC and 4-9 overall. Finished unranked. Took us 5 OTs to barely squeak out a win.

2001 UF game. Please. Clausen was 17-25 for 168 1 TD and 2 INTs. His average per pass was a paltry 3.9. That’s worse than JG. Travis Stephens won that game. If not for him we get blown out.

2003 UF game. Clausen goes 12-23 235 1 TD and 1 INT. We won 24-10. If not for the super stout defense and another stellar 2 TD rushing game, we lose.

So Clausen gets his “mythical” status from his two road wins against UF. Where he threw for a grand total of 403 yards with 2 TDs and 3 INTs. Let’s get with the facts. In the two UF games it was rushing and defense that won. NOT Clausen.

And the Bama games? Please give me a break. Bama was a complete joke then. Dobbs was the offense against UF in 2016. And Clausen had loads of NFL talent around him and a VASTLY superior coaching staff.

Dobbs>>Clausen
 
#111
#111
BigOrangeTrain said:
lol. You are joking right?

2001 Bama- Dennis Franchione went 4-4 in SEC and 7-5 overall. Finished unranked. We won 35-24.

2003 Bama- Mike Shula went 2-6 in SEC and 4-9 overall. Finished unranked. Took us 5 OTs to barely squeak out a win.

2001 UF game. Please. Clausen was 17-25 for 168 1 TD and 2 INTs. His average per pass was a paltry 3.9. That’s worse than JG. Travis Stephens won that game. If not for him we get blown out.

2003 UF game. Clausen goes 12-23 235 1 TD and 1 INT. We won 24-10. If not for the super stout defense and another stellar 2 TD rushing game, we lose.

So Clausen gets his “mythical” status from his two road wins against UF. Where he threw for a grand total of 403 yards with 2 TDs and 3 INTs. Let’s get with the facts. In the two UF games it was rushing and defense that won. NOT Clausen.

And the Bama games? Please give me a break. Bama was a complete joke then. Dobbs was the offense against UF in 2016. And Clausen had loads of NFL talent around him and a VASTLY superior coaching staff.

Dobbs>>Clausen
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No, I'm not joking. Clausen made big plays at crucial moments in all those games.

You have a right to your opinion
 
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#116
#116
MurphyVol said:
The puzzling choice to not block Alex Brown in the UF game derailed that season.

Like a prize fighter that didn't know when to quit, Tee kept getting back up but he wasn't the same player the rest of the season.
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If you go back and watch that game Alex Brown was CLEARLY offsides on three of the five sacks. Not to mention he should have been ejected for the horrendous late hit on Tee.
 
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#117
#117
volbabyvol said:
So let's just breakdown ALL the shortcomings of ALL our quarterback then shall we i have no problems:
A lot of you are leaving out Tee had 600+ rushing and 16tds


Rate (1-5) and why?

Andy Kelly
Heath shuler
Todd Helton
Peyton Manning
Tee Martin
Casey Clausen
Rick Clausen
Erik Ainge
Jon Crompton
Tyler Bray
Josh Dobbs
Jarrett G
Hendon Hooker
Joe Milton


Question:
Why couldn't we never beat Florida with Manning, that's possibly 2 more championship right there and we were just as stout. I need a refresh

There is plenty QBs on here you can critique but only 1 has a natty enjoy!
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We couldn't beat Florida with Manning because we couldn't stop Florida's offense. If I'm not mistaken we scored over 30 in three of the four losses?
 
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#118
#118
BigOrangeTrain said:
So when you are looking at a QB and judging how good he is, what criteria do you use?

Passing yards?
Average yards per attempt?
Completion percentage?
Total TDs? Total INTs?
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I go with wins. Victories. And championships.

Because it's a team sport. Rudy could be playing quarterback, but if he has the right leadership and intangibles to win championships while at the helm, in my mind he's a great QB.*

Because it's a team sport.

Go Vols!


p.s. Because it's a team sport.



* Okay, the dude has to be able to pass the ball and manage the game, too (which Tee did just fine, good enough to set an NCAA record at one point). So there's some individual measurement involved too. But mostly it comes down to leading the team to victories.



p.p.s. I knew a lot of leaders in my Army career. And at the very top, the generals, most of them were crackerjack smart. But every once in a while, you'd meet a fella who really wasn't very bright, but made general anyway. Know why? Because he won battles. Whatever his other skill sets, he could lead a brigade, division or corps to victory, time after time. That made him invaluable. Even if during his off time he might be limited to comic books and finger painting. Kinda the same with QBs.
 
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#119
#119
whobethis16 said:
It's not apathy. It's acknowledgement that an average stats, at best, guy at Tennessee will forever be remembered for helping win the title, but not being naive enough to think he was better than a career 55% completion percentage and a 2:1 TD/INT ratio.

Edit: Shuler was a career 61% with a 3:1 ratio, so there's that.
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I think some people just don't remember what the 90's were like....Tee only threw for 2300 yards?...so did Shuler, and he was a #2 pick. We've had 25 years of video game stats in CFB and we no longer understand what it meant to have a game manager who was a run threat, could throw a deep ball, and hit outside the numbers. He had 3 elite RB's and an elite line and we ran most of the time and won every game.

The 55% is not a result of inaccuracy. It's a result of the role. It's really not that easy to stay in a rhythm and hit 68% when you only throw 5x per quarter and you're not throwing quick slants against LB's in the spread. In this role, a disproportionate number of throws are throwaways and deep balls.

Michael Vick is maybe the best CFB QB I ever saw and he didn't throw for 2,000 or 60%
 
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#120
#120
VFL-82-JP said:
p.p.s. I knew a lot of leaders in my Army career. And at the very top, the generals, most of them were crackerjack smart. But every once in a while, you'd meet a fella who really wasn't very bright, but made general anyway. Know why? Because he won battles. Whatever his other skill sets, he could lead a brigade, division or corps to victory, time after time. That made him invaluable. Even if during his off time he might be limited to comic books and finger painting. Kinda the same with QBs.
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There is a lot to say about people who aren't obviously winners or stars, but make the team better.
 
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#121
#121
n_huffhines said:
I think some people just don't remember what the 90's were like....Tee only threw for 2300 yards?...so did Shuler, and he was a #2 pick. We've had 25 years of video game stats in CFB and we no longer understand what it meant to have a game manager who was a run threat, could throw a deep ball, and hit outside the numbers. He had 3 elite RB's and an elite line and we ran most of the time and won every game.

The 55% is not a result of inaccuracy. It's a result of the role. It's really not that easy to stay in a rhythm and hit 68% when you only throw 5x per quarter and you're not throwing quick slants against LB's in the spread. In this role, a disproportionate number of throws are throwaways and deep balls.
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Stats are stats. You can try and come up with whatever justification you want. Tee was an average to below average QB. His stats proved it. He missed a lot of throws.

People trashed JG for his accuracy yet he was more accurate than Tee. But because Tee played on a vastly superior team that won a title, his credit is inflated greatly.
 
#122
#122
n_huffhines said:
I think some people just don't remember what the 90's were like....Tee only threw for 2300 yards?...so did Shuler, and he was a #2 pick. We've had 25 years of video game stats in CFB and we no longer understand what it meant to have a game manager who was a run threat, could throw a deep ball, and hit outside the numbers. He had 3 elite RB's and an elite line and we ran most of the time and won every game.

The 55% is not a result of inaccuracy. It's a result of the role. It's really not that easy to stay in a rhythm and hit 68% when you only throw 5x per quarter and you're not throwing quick slants against LB's in the spread. In this role, a disproportionate number of throws are throwaways and deep balls.

Michael Vick is maybe the best CFB QB I ever saw and he didn't throw for 2,000 or 60%
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I wouldn't call Tee Martin a game manager as much as just a QB that had to be managed. That’s not a shot at him. He just was what he was- a QB that made some key plays, probably had an elite deep ball, but not one you wanted to consistently put in tough spots.
 
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#123
#123
BigOrangeTrain said:
Stats are stats. You can try and come up with whatever justification you want. Tee was an average to below average QB. His stats proved it. He missed a lot of throws.

People trashed JG for his accuracy yet he was more accurate than Tee. But because Tee played on a vastly superior team that won a title, his credit is inflated greatly.
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Only if you like championships.

Manning had the teams to do it as well but fate had other plans. Clearly Manning was/is the best that ever played so far at UT.

Too many people go out of their way to discredit Tee’s championship.
 
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#124
#124
Vol4life2 said:
Only if you like championships.

Manning had the teams to do it as well but fate had other plans. Clearly Manning was/is the best that ever played so far at UT.

Too many people go out of their way to discredit Tee’s championship.
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Only if you like championships lol. Trent Dilfer has the same amount of rings that Aaron Rodgers has. But then put in the stats and the gap becomes insurmountable.

The problem I have with Tee is the same I have with Clausen. They both somehow achieved mythical status for what? Your statements make it sound like Tee won the championship. He didn’t. Again look at his stats. They are JG level. Sorry but facts are facts.

Let’s be real the UF teams Peyton played were better. If you wanna bring up Peyton let’s do. Bring the stats. 1995 as a true sophomore against UF, we have the lead at the half. Our vaunted defense gives up 41 points in the second half. Guess how many times the 98 defense gave up 41 points in a whole game? ZERO.

So in your estimation Tee was better than Peyton because he was on a team they won a NC right?
 
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