Tenn. Senate OKs Bill To Allow Anti-Evolution Talk In Classrooms

#151
#151
utvolpj said:
my issue (and it's not hatred by any means) is with creationism being taught in any science class or outside of any class not labeled religion/philosophy. What this bill seems to be doing is opening up the discussion of creationism in science classes. Of course I doubt many behind this bill would want anything but the Christian view of creation to be discussed
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Do you think it should be taught in science classes that man evolved from a monkey?
 
#152
#152
Panthro said:
Don't blast me here, because I'm admitting my ignorance, but I don't even know what evolutionists' theory on the beginning of time is.
I'm having trouble understanding the huge problem between supporting creationism and evolution. It's the Catholic Church's stance that God created evolution.
I've heard Richard Dawkins call the beginning of life "an accident." Is that the discrepancy here? Do those passionately against the idea of Intelligent Design just throw their certainty behind the claim that it was all an accident?
If that's the case, I really don't see how one is less believable than the other. One theory feels like it gives optimism and a feeling of purpose while the other seems a little depressing. Why the passionate hatred by so many against creationists?
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Many evolutionists....including here...refuse to admit that their theory takes faith. This is because faith IS NOT PART OF THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD and therefore marrs the theory as a whole. They must therefore make Creationists out to be intellectually inferior as the only means of sustaining their theory in mainstream science. Scientists who believe in Creation are sometimes afraid to show this belief because they can be frowned upon in the workplace or shunned by the scientific community. This "intellectual elitism" is the only thing sustaining a theory with huge gaps in it. I assure you that the word "faith" is the elephant in the room for these evolutionists.
 
#153
#153
Gramps said:
Do you think it should be taught in science classes that man evolved from a monkey?
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I do not think showing that the genetic makeup of man and ape to be 98% similar is wrong. I don't think anyone declares that it absolutely happened though. That is what science class is about
 
#154
#154
Gramps said:
I think Marcus just called me an evolutionist.
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No gramps no name calling here bud. I'm not sure what belief you have but that's your business. I just don't want evolution bundled all together (macro micro etc. ) and shoved down our kids throats as fact. Its not fact. Its an idea.
 
#155
#155
marcusluvsvols said:
No gramps no name calling here bud. I'm not sure what belief you have but that's your business. I just don't want evolution bundled all together (macro micro etc. ) and shoved down our kids throats as fact. Its not fact. Its an idea.
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and I don't want religious dogma shoved down my kids throats in science class as you would have done.

I love TN and am proud to be from there but if this happened my kids would not be attending a public school in the state.
 
#157
#157
marcusluvsvols said:
Many evolutionists....including here...refuse to admit that their theory takes faith. This is because faith IS NOT PART OF THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD and therefore marrs the theory as a whole. They must therefore make Creationists out to be intellectually inferior as the only means of sustaining their theory in mainstream science. Scientists who believe in Creation are sometimes afraid to show this belief because they can be frowned upon in the workplace or shunned by the scientific community. This "intellectual elitism" is the only thing sustaining a theory with huge gaps in it. I assure you that the word "faith" is the elephant in the room for these evolutionists.
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Please don't speak for us. You haven't got the slightest clue what you are talking about.
 
#159
#159
marcusluvsvols said:
No gramps no name calling here bud. I'm not sure what belief you have but that's your business. I just don't want evolution bundled all together (macro micro etc. ) and shoved down our kids throats as fact. Its not fact. Its an idea.
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Yeah, you don't want micro evolution to get "shoved down your kids's throat as fact" but you sure as hell won't complain if your child is in the hospital and their treatment is a direct result of micro evolution in a lab which enabled the microbiologist/biochemist to create that life-saving remedy. Hypocrite.
 
#160
#160
Panthro said:
Don't blast me here, because I'm admitting my ignorance, but I don't even know what evolutionists' theory on the beginning of time is. I'm having trouble understanding the huge problem between supporting creationism and evolution. It's the Catholic Church's stance that God created evolution. I've heard Richard Dawkins call the beginning of life "an accident." Is that the discrepancy here? Do those passionately against the idea of Intelligent Design just throw their certainty behind the claim that it was all an accident?
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I am not sure exactly what you are asking. I have a general idea what you are getting at. If you could clarify your question, I would be happy to help you out.

Panthro said:
If that's the case, I really don't see how one is less believable than the other. One theory feels like it gives optimism and a feeling of purpose while the other seems a little depressing. Why the passionate hatred by so many against creationists?
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First of all, to each their own. You can believe what you want. I think the hatred comes into play when evolutionists or even non-creationists (who are not evolutionist) see creationists undertaking premeditated efforts to "brainwash" impressionable children by undermining the scientific method in favor of their religious beliefs.

Non-creationist and evolutionists don't really mind if a person does not totally buy into evolution as a comprehensive theory. To put this more plainly, they do not mind if there is a certain amount of skepticism when approaching evolution. Skepticism is the foundation of all science. It is healthy for the progression of human intellect.

It is another thing entirely to pass off the creation story of the Old Testament as fact.
 
#161
#161
I have a much easier time believing that we are descended from apes than believing that all humans are descended from a man and a woman that sprang into being barely 3000 years ago
 
#162
#162
MG1968 said:
I have a much easier time believing that we are descended from apes than believing that all humans are descended from a man and a woman that sprang into being barely 3000 years ago
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Especially when we know people were around longer ago than that...

Unless it's just god playing a trick on us.

Seriously, though, I'm with pj on this one. I do think there is a place for a religion and philosophy class in public schools, and out of anywhere, that's where creationism should be taught. There's absolutely no scientific basis behind it.

That which cannot be disproved is not science.

Also, for marcus and all our other evolution-deniers, I would advise you to try and understand the strict scientific meaning of the word "theory" in comparison to what it means in colloquial language.
 
#163
#163
PKT_VOL said:
BTW...feel free to explain how evolutionists need "faith" to make their theory work.
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You have to either have a great amount of faith or be absolutely terrible at math to believe that elements lined up perfectly - accidentally- to make the very first protein. The odds of this happening are astronomical. The fact that this had to happen trillions of times in a row by pure chance...and then the proteins AGCandT to line up in the exact right order in a double helix DNA..to create a single cell. Any mathematician would tell you that these probabilities are right next to impossible to create a single cell. Then all those cells have to function perfectly together to make a single organ. Then all the organs have to work perfectly together to make a system (I.e. respiratory, digestive etc) and if all these systems don't work together the organism dies. If any one of these trillions upon trillions of things go even slightly wrong...death. all of these astronomical probabilities strung together with absolutely no direction or planning....that doesn't take faith? Please. It takes more faith to believe that you came from "rock wash" than to believe I came from the Creator. I know you won't admit it...you don't need to. 1 unbiased observer here already pointed out the impossible odds facing your implausible "theory".
 
#164
#164
milohimself said:
Especially when we know people were around longer ago than that...

Unless it's just god playing a trick on us.

Seriously, though, I'm with pj on this one. I do think there is a place for a religion and philosophy class in public schools, and out of anywhere, that's where creationism should be taught. There's absolutely no scientific basis behind it.

That which cannot be disproved is not science.

Also, for marcus and all our other evolution-deniers, I would advise you to try and understand the strict scientific meaning of the word "theory" in comparison to what it means in colloquial language.
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All of your "dating" of fossils etc. Is flawed science as well and has huge holes in it. There are petrified trees UPSIDE DOWN that have fossils around them which have been radioactive carbon dated to be millions of years apart...from entirely different eras. Do you believe these trees stood upside down for millipractions of years while earth deposits turn to solid rock around them? There are many instances where a single sample of a fossil has been dated with the same equipment in the same lab and found by their calculations to be millions of years apart. The same animal. Dating fossils with RCD is a crapshoot at best and there are many holes in this practice. Scientists use it because they must manufacture evidence to support. Their beloved theory. The only alternative to that would be to admit that there is a creator.
 
#165
#165
PKT_VOL said:
I am not sure exactly what you are asking. I have a general idea what you are getting at. If you could clarify your question, I would be happy to help you out.



First of all, to each their own. You can believe what you want. I think the hatred comes into play when evolutionists or even non-creationists (who are not evolutionist) see creationists undertaking premeditated efforts to "brainwash" impressionable children by undermining the scientific method in favor of their religious beliefs.

Non-creationist and evolutionists don't really mind if a person does not totally buy into evolution as a comprehensive theory. To put this more plainly, they do not mind if there is a certain amount of skepticism when approaching evolution. Skepticism is the foundation of all science. It is healthy for the progression of human intellect.

It is another thing entirely to pass off the creation story of the Old Testament as fact.
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The problem here is that the scientific method does not apply to evolution being the origin of life. Scientific method requires hard evidence of an experiment that caan be duplicated and demonstrated by others. While technology today can fit an entire computer that used to be the size of a small house into this little phone, the best scientists in the world cannot even create a single celled living organism. Not only can they not create life, they have never been able to produce even a single BENEFECIAL mutation in an insect or animal that already exists. Much publicity was given to a team of scientists that tried everything they could...radiation, chemicals, electricity, etc. To improve a simple fruit fly. Look it up. 99% of the changes they made caused death...the closest they came was to engineer a fly with an extra set of wings. IT COULD NOT EVEN FLY. The truth is that in these experiments having even a single protein out of place or altering even a single portion of the strand of DNA resulted in instant death. You choose to believe that the "genetic dice" rolled a pair of 6's trillions upon trillions of times successively without ever coming up wrong. With no designer or external influence. Choose to believe whatever you want to but don't claim its scientific fact and shove it down kids throats. Its not fact. Its an idea. And to many Americans its a dumb idea. I don't believe your kids should be taught Creation in public schools...I won't allow mine to have a flawed idea be pushed on them as fact.
 
#166
#166
PKT_VOL said:
Yeah, you don't want micro evolution to get "shoved down your kids's throat as fact" but you sure as hell won't complain if your child is in the hospital and their treatment is a direct result of micro evolution in a lab which enabled the microbiologist/biochemist to create that life-saving remedy. Hypocrite.
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No need to call me names just because there is no more evidence to support your belief than mine. I grow weary of the "intellectual elitism" defense mechanism as well. Just bc I don't believe your theory doesn't mean you're smarter than me...or that I am confused. Do you understand that when mathematical probabilities are grouped together in the same function ( I.e. proteins lining up to make a single cell). That those odds become exponentially longer and longer? The odds of a single living cell happening accidentally are about like you standing in the same spot in your yard and getting struck by lightning about about a billion times . On a sunny day. And living to tell about it. You believe what you believe bc if there actually is a creator then YOU are not the center of the universe and master of your own destiny. You are on a train headed for a cliff and it doesn't matter if you believe in the train...or the cliff . Its going to wreck and you are eventually going to die. Then, just like me, you will stand before God and answer for what you've done in this world. You don't have to believe in God in order to be judged by him. Every man is appointed once to die, and then the judgment. Jesus Christ is the only path to salvation. He will welcome you with open arms.
 
#167
#167
thousand years from now a bunch of lego blocks formed together to make a star wars fighter plane will be found in some desert and a very smart scientist will use it to show how the blocks all look the same and grew from one single lego block into the whole fighter plane.


of course, he will be wrong too.
 
#168
#168
NEOCON said:
thousand years from now a bunch of lego blocks formed together to make a star wars fighter plane will be found in some desert and a very smart scientist will use it to show how the blocks all look the same and grew from one single lego block into the whole fighter plane.


of course, he will be wrong too.
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oh I get it. Thanks. Now a creationist.
 
#169
#169
NEOCON said:
thousand years from now a bunch of lego blocks formed together to make a star wars fighter plane will be found in some desert and a very smart scientist will use it to show how the blocks all look the same and grew from one single lego block into the whole fighter plane.


of course, he will be wrong too.
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And all those who question it will be chastised...called morons and of lesser intellect or education. I'm not ivy league educated (thank God) but I refused to be looked down upon by a bunch of liberal panty waists that think because they believe a far fetched theory it should be taught to my kids as fact.
 
#171
#171
NEOCON said:
scientist used to teach the world is flat.
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And that the sun revolved around the earth. Science is the best sense we can make of the universe around us with our limited tools and understanding. Some here would have us to believe that it is certified fact beyond reproach. Hogwash...or in this case "rock wash"...
 
#172
#172
marcusluvsvols said:
And that the sun revolved around the earth. Science is the best sense we can make of the universe around us with our limited tools and understanding. Some here would have us to believe that it is certified fact beyond reproach. Hogwash...or in this case "rock wash"...
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You do know that the church played a major role in resisting scientists' discovery in the 16th century that the geo-centric model was wrong, right? The rub was the church would not allow people to be taught that God's creations (Earth and Man) were not at the center of the universe. You know this, right?
 
#173
#173
Danl said:
You do know that the church played a major role in resisting scientists' discovery in the 16th century that the geo-centric model was wrong, right? The rub was the church would not allow people to be taught that God's creations (Earth and Man) were not at the center of the universe. You know this, right?
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There have been many things bigger than this that the church has gotten wrong over the years...most notably the Catholics. I know the church is not infallible..the are humans with limited understanding. The problem is evolutionists will not admit that their theory is not a demonstrated scientific fact. They will not admit that science is constantly changing and many long held scientific beliefs ( evolution, einsteins relativity) are often not supported by recent scientific research and discovery. Again, I don't believe my beliefs should be forced on your kids as fact. I expect the same in return.
 
#174
#174
marcusluvsvols said:
There have been many things bigger than this that the church has gotten wrong over the years...most notably the Catholics. I know the church is not infallible..the are humans with limited understanding. The problem is evolutionists will not admit that their theory is not a demonstrated scientific fact. They will not admit that science is constantly changing and many long held scientific beliefs ( evolution, einsteins relativity) are often not supported by recent scientific research and discovery. Again, I don't believe my beliefs should be forced on your kids as fact. I expect the same in return.
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You do know what the scientific meaning of the word "theory" is, right?

Do you not agree that contained within the scientific theory of evolution are many, many, many scientific facts?
 
#175
#175
Danl said:
You do know what the scientific meaning of the word "theory" is, right?

Do you not agree that contained within the scientific theory of evolution are many, many, many scientific facts?
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Only pertaining to variation in species and a few other exceptions. There is absolutely no evidence....whatsoever...of evolution being the origin of life. No scientist, now or ever, has witnessed or documented so much as a single protein organizing itself randomly from minerals etc. When it comes to the origin of life there is exactly as much hard physical evidence as there is to support Creation. Zero.
 
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