Tenn. Senate OKs Bill To Allow Anti-Evolution Talk In Classrooms

#201
#201
burntorangeVOLffle said:
My point by posting that was to show that the Christian faith can coexist with the science behind evolution. Just because you accept to science behind it does not eliminate God out of the equation.

However, science cannot support creationism as literally derived from the bible. That is that the entire worlds population derived from 2 people that were created out of nothing.
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Great post. The Catholic Church has been pretty good about this lately. I am not Catholic btw.

There is a fine line between physics (what you call science) and metaphysics. It has been a struggle since the beginning of civilization. Science cannot disprove the concept of God. It can only strip him of certain metaphysical properties.

For what it is worth, science has actually lent a great deal of evidence for the existence of God. The problem is that it does not fit the current Christian dogma or any other mainstream religious dogma for that matter.
 
#202
#202
burntorangeVOLffle said:
My point by posting that was to show that the Christian faith can coexist with the science behind evolution. Just because you accept to science behind it does not eliminate God out of the equation.

However, science cannot support creationism as literally derived from the
bible. That is that the entire worlds population derived from 2 people that were created out of nothing.
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I agree that the God and science can and do coexist.
No where in the Bible does it say that Adam and Eve were the only 2 humans God created and we all are traced back to them.
It does show the lineage from Adam to the children of Israel to Christ.
IF God were the creator, and I believe he was, there is no way to know how many men and women he created.

The Bible cannot be used to determine the age of the earth. The bible does say that God created everything in 6 days but it also says that a day with the Lord is as a thousand years and a thousand years is as a day. There is no way to determine the amount of time in a day in Genesis .
 
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#203
#203
PKT_VOL said:
Great post. The Catholic Church has been pretty good about this lately. I am not Catholic btw.
With
There is a fine line between physics (what you call science) and metaphysics. It has been a struggle since the beginning of civilization. Science cannot disprove the concept of God. It can only strip him of certain metaphysical properties.

For what it is worth, science has actually lent a great deal of evidence for the existence of God. The problem is that it does not fit the current Christian dogma or any other mainstream religious dogma for that matter.
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I acually agree with part of this post. I agree that science has given a lot to creation belief. The sheer complexity of the world around us causes many scientists to believe in a Creator. Nothing man does could ever strip God of anything...don't be confused about that. Once again the attitude that you are intellectually superior reeks in these posts. Be the first one to admit that this theory of yours requires faith...please. where did matter come from? The previous poster placed his faith in a future scientific result in order to justify his beliefs. I freely admit it takes faith and hope to believe what I do. Admit it takes both to count on either a mathematical impossibility or a future scientific breakthrough to justify your unproven beliefs.
 
#204
#204
marcusluvsvols said:
I acually agree with part of this post. I agree that science has given a lot to creation belief. The sheer complexity of the world around us causes many scientists to believe in a Creator. Nothing man does could ever strip God of anything...don't be confused about that. Once again the attitude that you are intellectually superior reeks in these posts. Be the first one to admit that this theory of yours requires faith...please. where did matter come from? The previous poster placed his faith in a future scientific result in order to justify his beliefs. I freely admit it takes faith and hope to believe what I do. Admit it takes both to count on either a mathematical impossibility or a future scientific breakthrough to justify your unproven beliefs.
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condescension and an overwhelming sense of moral superiority

at least you admit that Biblical creationism is pretty preposterous on it's face
 
#205
#205
PKT_VOL said:
Great post. The Catholic Church has been pretty good about this lately. I am not Catholic btw.

There is a fine line between physics (what you call science) and metaphysics. It has been a struggle since the beginning of civilization. Science cannot disprove the concept of God. It can only strip him of certain metaphysical properties.

For what it is worth, science has actually lent a great deal of evidence for the existence of God. The problem is that it does not fit the current Christian dogma or any other mainstream religious dogma for that matter.
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nice experiment.

now create (H2O), methane (CH4), ammonia (NH3) and hydrogen (H2) out of nothing or its a mute point.
 
#207
#207
NEOCON said:
nice experiment.

now create (H2O), methane (CH4), ammonia (NH3) and hydrogen (H2) out of nothing or its a mute point.
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What in the hell's a mute point?

Show me God or it's just a moot concept from an increasingly irrelevant sect.
 
#208
#208
marcusluvsvols said:
I acually agree with part of this post. I agree that science has given a lot to creation belief. The sheer complexity of the world around us causes many scientists to believe in a Creator. Nothing man does could ever strip God of anything...don't be confused about that. Once again the attitude that you are intellectually superior reeks in these posts. Be the first one to admit that this theory of yours requires faith...please. where did matter come from? The previous poster placed his faith in a future scientific result in order to justify his beliefs. I freely admit it takes faith and hope to believe what I do. Admit it takes both to count on either a mathematical impossibility or a future scientific breakthrough to justify your unproven beliefs.
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1) If you take the Bible as the literal word of God, then yes, science cleaves that God of certain metaphysical attributes.

2) As far as "faith" is concerned, it depends on how you define "faith". That is a semantics game. If you use faith in a secular way, you could certainly say I put faith in the scientific process. Again, I don't know how you define "faith" so I am not going to put words in your mouth.

3) As far as being "intellectually superior", I am sorry that I bring scientific facts and experiments into the discussion. Had you left the discussion of evolution to "I believe the Genesis stories on faith and faith alone" then you would have been spared my "intellectually superior" posts. You posted a bunch of garbage and tried to pass it off as scientific fact. If you (or any other poster) does that, then I am going to call you out. I am an equal opportunity poster.

4) The sad thing about our exchange is that you made it painfully obvious that you cannot create a logically coherent argument for the existence of God. Despite being your antagonist in this thread, I can create a few logically valid arguments for the existence of God. As Milo alluded to, people like you are a detriment to your own cause. People like you cause more people to stray away from "Christians" and a "Christian" life with your BS.
 
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#209
#209
NEOCON said:
nice experiment.

now create (H2O), methane (CH4), ammonia (NH3) and hydrogen (H2) out of nothing or its a mute point.
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They can be created a number of different ways.

This argument just eventually turns into the infamous Cosmological Argument which originated with Aristotle and was refined (made famous to Christians) by Saint Thomas Aquinas.
 
#210
#210
If any human being could fully understand God, then he would not be much of a God now would he?
 
#211
#211
T-TownVol said:
If any human being could fully understand God, then he would not be much of a God now would he?
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Yet there are those that profess to know exactly what he is thinking with regards to any number of issues on a daily basis.
 
#216
#216
This is when it really gets laughable..when the pseudo-scientists switch from being "experts" on other peoples research to being theologians as well. I don't claim to be a Bible scholar but unless you can translate from the original texts yourself KJV is about as good as it gets.

One post that really got under my skin in this thread was when the poster said " if you ever get a genetic disorder I hope you remember that poor little fly..." that honestly made me feel sorry for you. That post shows how lost you really are man. When my wife was pregnant with my daughter (our 2nd child) her uterus filled completely with blood. She was bleeding badly so we rushed to the hospital and watched the ultrasound. You couldn't even see the baby, only hear her little heart beating about 140? Beats a min on a black screen where she should have been. The doctors told us her body was aborting the pregnancy and that "it". (My daughter) would pass (jettison) in 24 to 36 hours. Modern medical science could do nothing for us. So I spent the next 2 days waiting on my wife hand and foot and knowing that every time she got up to go to the bathroom she could be losing our child. To say we prayed fervently for God to give as miracle would be an incredible understatement. A month or so passed and the same thing happened again, same diagnosis...same miracle. After the second one the doctors said there were irregularities in the ultrasounds and we should expect birth defects when our daughter arrived in june if she managed to live full term. My daughter, to Gods Glory, was born without a scratch on her and is now a brilliant 3 year old. Beautiful just like her mom. Lord willing she will be able to completely read and write when she arrives for her first day of school just like my son . When REAL life threatening situations face the ones you love the most...when medicine says they can do no more...you will beg God to help you. Even though you mock Him here...you will beg Him through tears to spare you or the ones you love more than yourself. He is merciful. He may give you that miracle just so you know He can. He has given me many miracles in my life. I hope he does the same for you. I am going to pray that He will reveal the truth to you.
 
#218
#218
OrangeEmpire said:
Most accurate?

Over the 1611?
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I honestly don't have a problem with the NIV. I think it is good for new believers. Theee thy thou can confuse people sometimes. I think the best Bible for a new believer is the one he will actually turn the TV off and read. The important thing is that a person is devoting their time to His word in order to know Him better. I wish I knew how to use the tools of this forum better so I could better respond to some of these posts. Many accredited scientists believe in creation and their views would refute the posts of some of these people. Copy and paste is about as far as my skills go and I don't even think I can do that from this Droid.
 
#220
#220
OrangeEmpire said:
Safe to say you are a young earth fan?

Ken Ham fan?
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I'm not sure what either of those are bud. No sarcasm intended. I go to an independent baptist church. I don't think denominations are imporant though. I think salvation is. I'm sure to these folks I'm narrow minded but I'm really not. I don't care if a person is protestant or catholic.. I. Think that, as the Bible states, the only way to get to Heaven is to truly believe that Jesus Christ died, was buried, and raised from the dead to atone for the sins of mankind. I believe any man, regardless of race creed or denomination calls on Christ and truly repents (turn away) from their sins they have eternal security in our Lord. It is a free pardon, given to us by His grace(unmerited favor) and I. Truly wish this for all mankind. I don't force my views on anyone. I would never let the State or anyone else force this theory on my kids...and call it fact. I freely admit my beliefs take faith. None of these people will admit that their beliefs in something that can't be observed requires faith as well. On a side note- I live in NC and drive an old truck with 250k miles on it so my kids can go to Christian school- what Tennessee teaches in their classrooms doesn't effect me at all personally. These science teachers who knowingly push a theory as fact when it comes to the origin of life are in a dangerous position. The Bible says it is better to have a millstone tied around your neck and be cast into the sea than to lead a single child away from the Lord. I will continue to pray about this issue and could not possibly care less what these heathens think about me.
 
#221
#221
No doubt you have Indy baptist influence

So you have never heard of the young earth theory or creationist scientist Ken Ham?

I find it hard to believe if you are main stream Indy Baptist.

Is your church more pentecostal or primitive baptist?
 
#224
#224
OE I am not arrogant bro. I made it clear that I am not even necessarily a Baptist. As far as Creation Science goes I think Dr hovind of CSE was one of the best. Ironic that he's now in prison for tax evasion. Guess he didn't read the part about rendering unto caesar what is caesars...God wants you to pay your taxes. Its in the Book. While I don't agree with everything Hovind had to say see if you can find "lies in the textbooks" it will open your eyes. I had the exact textbooks when I was in school that he blows holes in. He was a professor and biology teacher and knows more about science than any of these posters ever will. The things I said about salvation, which I guess you perceived to be arrogance?, are not my words bro. You profess to be a Christian I believe....do you believe there is any way to get to Heaven besides Jesus Christ? I am certainly interested in you perspective.
 
#225
#225
To clarify ...I don't believe in the day/ age theory or the gap theory. Not sure if that's what you were asking. They are IMO ways the modern church is trying to reconcile its beliefs with fossil "dating"...we laugh now about the stupid conclusions scientists drew 200 years ago. 200 years from now scientists today will be mocked as well. That's the nature of science. Gods word is eternal.
 
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