Tennessee Not A Blip On The Radar

#202
#202
justingroves said:
What if they aren't underrated? It's silly to think all those guys are just "undiscovered" or "underrated".
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You have to catch up with the context of the conversation jg... and probably consider our history of disagreement too.
 
#204
#204
VKAman said:
Apparently you're still missing my point. A few of the guys in our class are underrated. 5, maybe less. For us to compete with the talent of Alabama, we need about 20 of those guys. We can't just have "some guys" that are underrated; for our 3*s to compete with the 5*s of others, almost ALL of them have to be, and so far, they're not.
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I don't know that. The one thing I do know is that YOU don't know that either.

How many underrated guys did he find at Louisiana Tech?
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Relevance? None.

I don't know why it's so hard to understand that the teams that win those states win titles.
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And I don't know why it is so hard to understand that instate schools are and will for the foreseeable future win those states. So you either accept your role as "opponent" or you look for a different way. We can be relatively certain that you aren't going to steal enough of their guys to beat them. Another possibility is believing enough in your evaluating abilities to try finding underrated guys or guys that are underdeveloped but very talented.

I have repeated said that I don't know if Dooley's method will work. I am convinced because of direct evidence that thinking you are going to raid FL and take a high percentage of the players UF, FSU, and Miami want is lunacy.

I think GA is a much better proposition... and oddly enough the whole state is within the area Dooley is trying to make home recruiting turf.
And speaking of this "dishonesty" and "lack of integrity," I love how you're talking about the "last ten years" but trying to get away with only looking at nine of those and ignoring Oklahoma, with its oh-so-talented state. I don't know why it's so hard to understand that we've done it before, either.
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Sorry. I miscounted. I would have said 9 but the point stands either way. If it is last 10, 9 of the last 10, 10 of the last 11, or 10 of 12... The RULE is that teams are NOT going to have success raiding those states.

OU has a very long history of being the 2nd choice for Texas kids. I live in Big 12 country and they don't even consider Texas out of state recruiting. There are towns in Texas that are "OU towns". There's simply no comparison between where UT sits in regard to FL et al and where OU sits with Texas. UT is one of dozens of "other" options for FL kids. OU is the #2 choice and has at times been the #1 choice for great Texas players.
 
#205
#205
VKAman said:
James is a "maybe" now? Remember that rant you went on about dishonesty and spinning?
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I can't remember a meltdown by UGA fans because UT got him. Maybe they did and I didn't see it.

There are no "maybes" about his talent. I don't think there's a guy in that class I would have rather had.

Yeah, Dooley pulled Da'Rick all by himself and Kiffin only had a 50-50 shot at Nickell Robey and Markeith Ambles. Just curious, where are those guys now?
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You just can't get over him can you? I mean you have an obsession don't you?

Yeah. I would say that Dooley was the biggest factor for landing Rogers. You remember Kiffin left, right? I know that's a painful memory for you that you would like to deny... but he did. Do you remember the chaos that ensued. If anything, UT SHOULD HAVE BEEN further behind with Rogers... it SHOULD HAVE BEEN nearly impossible to pull him in under any circumstances.

Ambles was a Vol until Kiffin slithered out of town. No idea about Robey. Maybe he liked Kiffin and his moving to USC was all it took?

I think Kiffin would have finished off the class with some good or even great talents. Judging from the other great talents he brought in.... about half would have never contributed.
 
#206
#206
VKAman said:
Oh, so now we're saying that since Fulmer signed some highly rated busts, every coach at UT that simply goes after the best players will have the same results. Yeah, Richardson, Green and Myles were definitely half of the 4*s in our 2009 class. By themselves. Yup.
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There were 11 4-5* players in that class. He inherited 4 that were committed to UT... not Fulmer or Kiffin. Green never made it to campus so I gave you that one.

That leaves 6 and the last time I checked... 3 was half of six.
 
#207
#207
VKAman said:
A few decent players from the 90s:

Peyton Manning - LA
Travis Henry - FL
Jamal Lewis - GA
Peerless Price - OH
Joey Kent - AL
Tee Martin - AL
Raynoch Thompson - CA
Cosey Coleman - GA
Deon Grant - GA

There were a lot from SC as well.
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you all follow recruiting more closely than i do, but just from a logic standpoint ...

bammer, LSWho, USuCk and UGA were "down" when the above were culled. they are not "down" now so it would seem that it is going to be harder to lure the top recruits from their home state programs. maybe not impossible, but if it is possible i would think that there would be some examples of current coaches who are doing it on a consistent basis. if there are not, well, maybe then it can't be done.

ND certainly depends on this process. and ND has not been relevant since, what, 1988?

as far as OK/TX i'll have to defer to sjt18 as he lives in the area and i don't.

carry on.
 
#208
#208
VKAman said:
Not really. He said pretty much the exact same thing I did regarding that comment.
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Yep, he pretty much keeps babbling the same thing.

Underated players, stars don't matter except in figuring out who doesn't have character (the more they have the less character they have), yada yada yada.

He's become a total Dooley Homer parsing every sentence you post as if he's refuting each and every point. He's not. It's just wasted pixels on his part.

Help save the planet, SJT, by posting less.
 
#211
#211
I have to give USCe some credit, they are picking up the pace. Spurrier said the key for USCe was to keep in state talent. Looks like some of those guys are looking his way now. I know it would be hard to snag some of those 5* guys but it would be nice to at least be mentioned in the conversation.
 
#212
#212
Honestly, these are the kind of guys TN is going to have to recruit in order to win.
 
#214
#214
utmba93 said:
Yep, he pretty much keeps babbling the same thing.

Underated players, stars don't matter except in figuring out who doesn't have character (the more they have the less character they have), yada yada yada.
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The disease is spreading. We need a vaccine. Please find a post where I said stars don't matter.

I said that if you can evaluate talent you can find guys with talent who don't have 4-5*.

And yes, character matters and especially when you are picking through the recruting leftovers of UF, LSU, USC, etc. You have to be careful because they passed on them for a reason.

For instance, I think Ambles is a great talent but UGA passed on him. Why? Because they felt they could get someone just as good who didn't have the character risks... Fortunately for us, Dooley took him away from them too.

He's become a total Dooley Homer parsing every sentence you post as if he's refuting each and every point. He's not. It's just wasted pixels on his part.
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Stop posting conjecture as fact, twisting statements, using strawmen, and denying plain facts... and I promise I won't parse words.

DEAL?
Help save the planet, SJT, by posting less.
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You first.
 
#215
#215
utmba93 said:
True, we don't 'know', but it's a reasonable assumption that loading the roster with 3* players will not win championships.
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No it isn't. Not until we know whether he and his staff are very good at evaluating talent or not. If there weren't a large number of talented 3* players out there and/or we knew these guys were clueless about talent then it would be a reasonable assumption.

However, UT's rebuilding will largely be determined by linemen. If they return to great line play the skill players will come. Skill players are more likely to come in as Fr ready to play. I tend to trust Smith and Hiestand.... especially Hiestand. If he's stamped his approval on the 3* guys they have committed then I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

That will drag the all important star avg down... but I am willing to withhold judgment until we see it.

We don't even know what they will "load" the roster with yet. They still seem to be pursuing some highly rated guys in this class.

We also don't know if the sun will rise tomorrow, but it's a safe bet.
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So now you are putting so much faith in VKA's conjectures that you compare them with the probability of the sun rising... and you call me a "homer"? Fantastic.
 
#216
#216
BTW, homers usually say that they think a guy should be fired after 3 years if he can't take a depleted roster and unfavorable recruiting position and reach 9-10 games within 3 years with at least one win against Bama or UF... two teams UT is currently 1-11 against over the past 12 games..., right?

I have REPEATEDLY said that I like Dooley but he becomes a liability to the future of the program if he doesn't prove he can compete at the highest level by '12.
 
#217
#217
utmba93 said:
Yep, he pretty much keeps babbling the same thing.

Underated players, stars don't matter except in figuring out who doesn't have character (the more they have the less character they have), yada yada yada.

He's become a total Dooley Homer parsing every sentence you post as if he's refuting each and every point. He's not. It's just wasted pixels on his part.

Help save the planet, SJT, by posting less.
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I think I would rather be a Dooley homer than stuck on Kiffin's family jewels, since Dooley is actually the coach at UT. Just a thought...
 
#219
#219
Before everyone gets their panties in a wad, I understand what those lists amount to.
 
#220
#220
Biopsyman said:
Elite talent wants to play for titles and not be apart of a rebuilding process. They would rather be viewed as a potential missing part or sold as a team that will complete in the next several years for the big prize. I do not think that thiscan be sold this year especially at the skill positions. I can't stand what I just wrote, however I believe it is true with our program currently.
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One can say Bama was in the rebuilding proccess when they hired Saban. 2nd year in, undefeated, top recruiting class.

DD better pick up the recruiting pace, or we will continue our slide to the bottom.
 
#221
#221
sjt18 said:
I don't know that. The one thing I do know is that YOU don't know that either.
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utmba said it best.

Relevance? None.
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Really? If he's going to make his living at UT recruiting "leftovers," and succeed, surely he would have found some good LSU leftovers in the talent-rich state of Louisiana, yes? His eye for talent would result in at least a little bit of a talent upgrade from the last guy, right? How'd that work out?

I think GA is a much better proposition... and oddly enough the whole state is within the area Dooley is trying to make home recruiting turf.
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Yeah, not like I've been talking about Georgia this entire time or anything...

But we need to go after and get the best players in Georgia. We're not going to win by settling for the leftovers.

OU has a very long history of being the 2nd choice for Texas kids. I live in Big 12 country and they don't even consider Texas out of state recruiting. There are towns in Texas that are "OU towns". There's simply no comparison between where UT sits in regard to FL et al and where OU sits with Texas. UT is one of dozens of "other" options for FL kids. OU is the #2 choice and has at times been the #1 choice for great Texas players.
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So? Why can't Georgia be like that for us?
 
#222
#222
One can also say that many of the key players for Saban's teams over the past two years were 3* guys... and mostly 3* guys recruited by Shula.

You need talent. If you find it like USC and win the "recruiting championship" on Rivals every year then great. That's exciting.

But if you have to do it the blue collar way like Oregon or Va Tech then you do that.

The key is finding talent, getting them to campus, keeping them on campus, and developing them into championship caliber players.


"Elite players", like other players, are motivated by many different things. A Benn went from DC to Illinois to play for Zook a couple of years ago. B Brown just left the SEC to play for K-State. Calvin Smith who was pursued by UT, Bama, UF, FSU, and a host of other big schools signed with New Mexico.
 
#223
#223
Another unknown that could work great or sink the ship is how DD's strategy on official visits will work out.

He has basically tried to avoid having OV's during the season and encouraging them after the season when the players can have sit down talks with the coaches. That may be a homerun that kids respond to and love. It may be squandering the appeal of one of the best gameday atmospheres in college football.

Dooley's job depends on it working... will be interesting to watch.
 
#224
#224
sjt18 said:
I can't remember a meltdown by UGA fans because UT got him. Maybe they did and I didn't see it.
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Why does that not surprise me? He was committed to Alabama and was a top priority for Georgia. Both those schools wanted him bad.

Yeah. I would say that Dooley was the biggest factor for landing Rogers. You remember Kiffin left, right? I know that's a painful memory for you that you would like to deny... but he did. Do you remember the chaos that ensued. If anything, UT SHOULD HAVE BEEN further behind with Rogers... it SHOULD HAVE BEEN nearly impossible to pull him in under any circumstances.
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Um, no, because all it took was offering Nance. As long as we were a better football program than Vanderbilt, and our football coach wasn't a retarded grandmother, Rogers was coming here when we made that offer and Georgia didn't. It really wasn't that difficult or complicated.

Ambles was a Vol until Kiffin slithered out of town. No idea about Robey. Maybe he liked Kiffin and his moving to USC was all it took?
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Or maybe he was going to sign with Kiffin either way just like Ambles was? I can't help it if you're uninformed enough to think it was some kind of 50-50 random shot for us getting Robey. But if that's what you think, you're wrong.

I think Kiffin would have finished off the class with some good or even great talents. Judging from the other great talents he brought in.... about half would have never contributed.
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Funny how John Propst is a "contributor" but guys like Greg King aren't...
 
#225
#225
sjt18 said:
One can also say that many of the key players for Saban's teams over the past two years were 3* guys... and mostly 3* guys recruited by Shula.
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Liiiike Mark Ingram? No? What about Julio Jones? Or Barron? Or Hightower? Or Trent Richardson? Or Andre Smith? Or McClain? Oh...none of them? Hmmm...

You need talent. If you find it like USC and every other national champion and win the "recruiting championship" on Rivals every year then great. That's exciting.

But if you have to do it the blue collar way and never actually win anything like Oregon or Va Tech then you do that.
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FYPs
 
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