Thank goodness for Fox News! Obama: America a Superpower 'Whether We Like It or Not'

#51
#51
Oh come on. Clearly in context he is saying that, like it or not, we have a responsibility as a superpower to deal with these issues. Sheesz.
 
#53
#53
OrangeEmpire said:
You actually believe this?
Click to expand...

That the US was once a more respected leader and player on the world stage? Yes. US involvement was key to the formation of the European Union. It was key to the economical and cultural restructuring and rebuilding of Japan and Germany after WW2.

Of course, we had a plethora of beneficial ambition in all accounts, but the stance of the US was absolutely respected.

Once Bush showed the world that the US will do what it wants, when it wants, and without heeding or even listening to advice the world was levying was a huge hit on our reputation as a mediator and leader. The US having the sheer amount of power it has and a shown ability to wield it with complete disregard is downright scary to everyone in the world and even those within it's borders. The nationalism that spawned as a result of the "damn the world, full speed ahead" is also concerning.
 
#54
#54
The US isn't more nationalistic than other countries. We have a lot of people who are nationalistic, but we also have a lot of people who seem to think the US should just surrender our weapons hold hands with everyone else.
 
#56
#56
bush's attitude didnt' stop the euros from buying trillions of MBS over his administration. obama is kissing their ass why? so the next time we want to invade someone we get a couple of thousand troops? other than that what have we lost?
 
#57
#57
GASOUTHERNVOL said:
why does eurpoe have the right to say what is a legal and what is not a legal war? they were completely cool with us going into Kosovo, and dealing with Malosavich, but had a problem with us going in and stopping what Saddam was doing with the Kurds? It was the same thing.
Click to expand...

The same right, and same thing, that pretty much the entirety of the US Intelligence services were saying. There was no reliable intel serving the purpose of the US going into Iraq. That "you're either with us or against us" line is down-right vitriolic rhetoric.

GASOUTHERNVOL said:
We do, so you naysayers can move out if you dont think we are the best, and rightfully so.
Click to expand...

I served my time in the military so I (or anyone else) can say whatever in the world they want to. I am proud, in fact, that I served so even the Westboro Baptist crazies can spew their ignorance. I hate them and what they say and stand for but they have every right. Your statement embodies the arrogance I was addressing.
 
#59
#59
DC Vol said:
The same right, and same thing, that pretty much the entirety of the US Intelligence services were saying. There was no reliable intel serving the purpose of the US going into Iraq. That "you're either with us or against us" line is down-right vitriolic rhetoric.
Click to expand...

bill and hillary both said the intelligence they saw when he was president said that iraq had WMAD. arguing bush fabricated the evidence is ridiculous.
 
#60
#60
DC Vol said:
That the US was once a more respected leader and player on the world stage? Yes. US involvement was key to the formation of the European Union. It was key to the economical and cultural restructuring and rebuilding of Japan and Germany after WW2.

Of course, we had a plethora of beneficial ambition in all accounts, but the stance of the US was absolutely respected.

Once Bush showed the world that the US will do what it wants, when it wants, and without heeding or even listening to advice the world was levying was a huge hit on our reputation as a mediator and leader. The US having the sheer amount of power it has and a shown ability to wield it with complete disregard is downright scary to everyone in the world and even those within it's borders. The nationalism that spawned as a result of the "damn the world, full speed ahead" is also concerning.
Click to expand...

This is a pretty simplistic and naive way to look at it. The problem here is that just as we were looking out for our own interests the Euros were doing the same.

I agree that we should walk softly and carry a big stick but let us not forget the big dogs cage was rattled, to expect anything other than a big bark is asinine.
 
#61
#61
CountVolcula said:
Europeans call us warmongers. I call them pacifist chicken s____'s.
Click to expand...

Why? Because they didn't support the Iraq War? They wanted more trepidation before gung hoing it straight into Iraq? I guess call the CIA, NSA and DoD Branch Intel services pacifist chicken s_____'s too for wanting to show trepidation and not rush into an unjust and unwarranted war. The US is supposed to be better than that.

Also, there was a significant divide between the DoD and the Legislative Branches on many points regarding Iraq... top to bottom.
 
#62
#62
KB5252 said:
This is a pretty simplistic and naive way to look at it. The problem here is that just as we were looking out for our own interests the Euros were doing the same.

I agree that we should walk softly and carry a big stick but let us not forget the big dogs cage was rattled, to expect anything other than a big bark is asinine.
Click to expand...

Well said.
 
#63
#63
DC Vol said:
Leads me to think that McCain wants to chest-beat about the role of the US in world affairs. Honestly... Obama nailed it.
Click to expand...

DC Vol said:
Being proud of and being arrogant about are two totally different things.

Honestly, some of the comments I received by pro-military people when I was in my Blues embarrassed me a little. Nationalism is a very thin line and more often than not... dangerous to traverse.
Click to expand...

Being a Superpower is about more than military might. McCain did not reference the military when he spoke about the US being a "force for good". You made that statement equating force for good with military only.
 
#64
#64
DC Vol said:
Why? Because they didn't support the Iraq War? They wanted more trepidation before gung hoing it straight into Iraq? I guess call the CIA, NSA and DoD Branch Intel services pacifist chicken s_____'s too for wanting to show trepidation and not rush into an unjust and unwarranted war. The US is supposed to be better than that.

Also, there was a significant divide between the DoD and the Legislative Branches on many points regarding Iraq... top to bottom.
Click to expand...

The Euro powers that be didn't support the war for mostly selfish economic reasons not based on some principle of non-interference. They are all about interfering if it affects their national interests.
 
#65
#65
KB5252 said:
This is a pretty simplistic and naive way to look at it. The problem here is that just as we were looking out for our own interests the Euros were doing the same.

I agree that we should walk softly and carry a big stick but let us not forget the big dogs cage was rattled, to expect anything other than a big bark is asinine.
Click to expand...

And there is the problem. The US does not have the right to chest-beat and call ourselves the "best country in the world" if we're inevitably no better than anyone else... China included.

We start wars, destabilize regions and throw our troops in to protect our own interests. This wasn't about WMDs, it never was. I'm just calling a spade a spade.
 
#66
#66
volinbham said:
The Euro powers that be didn't support the war for mostly selfish economic reasons not based on some principle of non-interference. They are all about interfering if it affects their national interests.
Click to expand...

What? The alleged weapons deal between Chirac and Hussein?
 
#67
#67
DC Vol said:
Once Bush showed the world that the US will do what it wants, when it wants, and without heeding or even listening to advice the world was levying was a huge hit on our reputation as a mediator and leader. The US having the sheer amount of power it has and a shown ability to wield it with complete disregard is downright scary to everyone in the world and even those within it's borders. The nationalism that spawned as a result of the "damn the world, full speed ahead" is also concerning.
Click to expand...

Ironically, the Euro people like us better under Obama but Euro leaders are colder to Obama than they were to Bush. You can look to Merkl in particular. My guess is that the Euro leaders like having it both ways - having a US that will do the dirty work and being able to ***** about it at the same time.
 
#68
#68
Is it the United States role to invade North Korea? Syria? Iran?

The only argument I have heard is how evil Saddam Hussein was. Sure the man was evil, but plenty of leaders in the world have done similiar acts. The Neoconservative leadership has painted the world as good and evil, with the United States clearly being the defender of all that is grand in the world. Regardless whether the United States is performing charitable acts - which isn't always true, the rest of the world gets another image. An image of imperialism reminiscient of Great Britain, the West vs the rest of the World. In truth I don't buy that one bit, but past administrations have done nothing to help eliminate the ugly american view - and I'm not pointing out G.W. Bush, this dates back multiple administrations. In truth, this sense of Nationalism or what others refer to as Patriotism - if you don't like our foreign policy you're not american, is damaging America's standing on the geo-political landscape.

America is great, but the good vs evil.. I mean "Axis of Evil" is ridiculous.

No doubt, Billy Krystal will be angry.
 
#69
#69
DC Vol said:
What? The alleged weapons deal between Chirac and Hussein?
Click to expand...


Much deeper than that. Oil for Food exposed some of the issue. Bottomline, if you don't think the Euro's were acting in their own self interests you are fooling yourself.
 
#70
#70
DC Vol said:
The US does not have the right to chest-beat and call ourselves the "best country in the world" if we're inevitably no better than anyone else... China included.
.
Click to expand...

having 4 times our population doesn't make china's country better. we've heard about the demise of america before. worked out well for japan
 
#71
#71
DC Vol said:
Why? Because they didn't support the Iraq War? They wanted more trepidation before gung hoing it straight into Iraq? I guess call the CIA, NSA and DoD Branch Intel services pacifist chicken s_____'s too for wanting to show trepidation and not rush into an unjust and unwarranted war. The US is supposed to be better than that.

Also, there was a significant divide between the DoD and the Legislative Branches on many points regarding Iraq... top to bottom.
Click to expand...

They paint Americans with the stroke of a wide brush, I was just returning the favor.
 
#73
#73
DC Vol said:
And there is the problem. The US does not have the right to chest-beat and call ourselves the "best country in the world" if we're inevitably no better than anyone else... China included.

We start wars, destabilize regions and throw our troops in to protect our own interests. This wasn't about WMDs, it never was. I'm just calling a spade a spade.
Click to expand...

All countries take actions to protect their own interests.

You might read Angela Merkl's history - American Exceptionalism is a key component of her success. Belief in it was and is a constant motivator for her.

There's nothing wrong with believing your underlying founding principles are special.
 
#74
#74
volinbham said:
Much deeper than that. Oil for Food exposed some of the issue. Bottomline, if you don't think the Euro's were acting in their own self interests you are fooling yourself.
Click to expand...

My issue with this is the absurd nationalism and patriotic zeal people have about troops going into Iraq. I am proud of my service and what we were trying to accomplish in Afghanistan and across the world for that matter. I am not proud, however (and share this sentiment with most I served with) over Iraq. The arrogance of Rumsfeld, Chaney and Bush and their refusal to listen to their own JCS and the world for that matter spoke clearly their reasons for going into Iraq. WMDs were not the issue. The people of this country and Congress were deceived and should feel ashamed for this... for allowing their zeal and patriotism to be used as methods of manipulation and control.
 
#75
#75
once again clinton said he believed iraq had WMD because of the intelligence he saw when president. was he lying too?
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top