"That's American Politics, Pure and Simple"

#76
#76
bamawriter said:
You haven't given one example of an obstacle to getting an ID that can't be easily overcome. And yet you ridicule this guy who has gone through a process that is much more complicated than getting a photo ID. The difference in red tape between the two isn't even comparable.
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"red" tape? you are obviously racist against Indians
 
#77
#77
bamawriter said:
You haven't given one example of an obstacle to getting an ID that can't be easily overcome. And yet you ridicule this guy who has gone through a process that is much more complicated than getting a photo ID. The difference in red tape between the two isn't even comparable.
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+1
 
#82
#82
lawgator1 said:
I mean seriously, download the form to get a voter id card? And then provide the supporting documentation? And what might that require ?

Why not also require they run a 100 yard dash with hurdles since that is exactly what that is intended to be.
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My 81 year old granny could take you in the 100 yard dash, and still beat you to the poles drivin 25 mph.
 
#83
#83
bamawriter said:
You haven't given one example of an obstacle to getting an ID that can't be easily overcome. And yet you ridicule this guy who has gone through a process that is much more complicated than getting a photo ID. The difference in red tape between the two isn't even comparable.
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Ok, you are just dead wrong. Wikipedia has article, WITH LINKS that you might want to choose and look at as you see fit, assuming you actually want to learn about this and not just take the GOP party line.

I will repeat earlier posting of that as it was in another thread some time ago.

Voter suppression - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Look at the ACTUAL evidence of voter fraud. Then look at the "solutions." Then look at what the actual effect of the "solutions" is.
 
#85
#85
lawgator1 said:
Well, there you have it. Your own exposure to these issues -- as vast as it is having adopted one kid -- obviously encompasses all human experience in these matters.

Case closed.
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And your actual experience? Not what you've read or what you believe, but what you've actually done.

How many poor minority people have you helped try to get a government ID and failed?

How many people in your circle of life would be unable to vote if they had to go out and get a photo ID? I'm not talking about the janitor who you might greet on your way out of the door each night, I'm talking about people that you would sit next to in church, eat lunch with and invite over for supper.

My point was that in my own personal daily affairs, which cut across all sorts of racial, economic and social boundaries, I can find no one who will admit to not being able to vote if they had to show an ID card. If I could find just one person who could prove how this would be any sort of obstacle to being able to vote then I would change my position. The fact of the matter is I can't and I would be you wouldn't be able to produce anyone either.
 
#86
#86
YorkVol said:
And your actual experience? Not what you've read or what you believe, but what you've actually done.

How many poor minority people have you helped try to get a government ID and failed?

How many people in your circle of life would be unable to vote if they had to go out and get a photo ID? I'm not talking about the janitor who you might greet on your way out of the door each night, I'm talking about people that you would sit next to in church, eat lunch with and invite over for supper.

My point was that in my own personal daily affairs, which cut across all sorts of racial, economic and social boundaries, I can find no one who will admit to not being able to vote if they had to show an ID card. If I could find just one person who could prove how this would be any sort of obstacle to being able to vote then I would change my position. The fact of the matter is I can't and I would be you wouldn't be able to produce anyone either.
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Ok, you helped how many people do this and I didn't, therefore you are right and I (and all of the unbiased reviews and actual evidence on the issue) are all wrong.

Gotcha.'


Also, I went fishing the other day for 3 hours in a cement pond and didn't get a nibble. Therefore, all reports of people ever being able to fish are clearly wrong and a lie.
 
#87
#87
lawgator1 said:
Ok, you are just dead wrong. Wikipedia has article, WITH LINKS that you might want to choose and look at as you see fit, assuming you actually want to learn about this and not just take the GOP party line.

I will repeat earlier posting of that as it was in another thread some time ago.

Voter suppression - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Look at the ACTUAL evidence of voter fraud. Then look at the "solutions." Then look at what the actual effect of the "solutions" is.
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Using your source

Photo ID laws
See also: Voter ID laws (United States)
Photo ID laws require voters to present a government-approved photo ID before they may cast their ballots. Countries including Belgium, Spain, Greece, Italy, Malta,[3] and seven US states have such laws, including Indiana and Georgia.[4] A significant distinction between the United States and these other countries is that national identification is commonplace and a longstanding infrastructure exists to ensure all voters are issued identification at no cost.[3]
Supporters of photo ID laws contend that the photographic IDs (such as driver's licenses or student IDs from state schools) are nearly universal, and that presenting them is a minor inconvenience when weighed against the possibility of ineligible voters affecting elections. Opponents argue that photo ID requirements disproportionately affect minority and elderly voters who don't normally maintain driver's licenses, and therefore that requiring such groups to obtain and keep track of photo IDs that are otherwise unneeded is a suppression tactic aimed at those groups.[5]
Indiana's photo ID law barred twelve retired nuns in South Bend, Indiana from voting in that state's 2008 Democratic primary election. The women lacked the photo IDs required under a state law that was upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court in April 2008. John Borkowski, a South Bend lawyer volunteering as an election watchdog for the Lawyers' Committee for Civil Rights Under Law, said, "This law was passed supposedly to prevent and deter voter fraud, even though there was no real record of serious voter fraud in Indiana."[6][7]
Proponents of a similar law proposed for Texas In March 2009 also argued that photo identification was necessary to prevent widespread voter fraud. Opponents respond that there is no evidence of such voter fraud in Texas, so no remedy is required, especially if such a remedy would decrease voting by senior citizens, the disabled, and lower-income residents. Opponents cited a study asserting that 1 million of the state's 13.5 million registered voters do not have a photo ID.[4]
State Sen. Troy Fraser (R-Horseshoe Bay) said, "Voter fraud not only is alive and well in the U.S., but also alive and well in Texas. The danger of voter fraud threatens the integrity of the entire electoral process." Democratic Caucus Chairwoman Leticia Van de Putte (D-San Antonio) said the proposed law "is not about voter fraud. There is no voter fraud. This is about voter suppression." Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott (R) spent $1.4 million investigating voter fraud but did not report any cases where a person tried to impersonate an eligible voter at a polling place—arguably the only kind of fraud that photo ID laws would prevent.[4]
Legislation to impose restrictive photo ID requirements has been prepared by the conservative organization ALEC and circulated to conservative state legislators[5].
In 2011, more than 100 Democratic members of Congress urged the Department of Justice to oppose such legislation, arguing that it "has the potential to block millions of eligible American voters, and thus suppress the right to vote."[8]
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No evidence that Photo ID laws result in voter supression here. None. Just a statement that opponents feel it WOULD suppress voting. Interesting source for that claim as well - Dem House members quoted in Talking Points Memo.
 
#88
#88
lawgator1 said:
Ok, you helped how many people do this and I didn't, therefore you are right and I (and all of the unbiased reviews and actual evidence on the issue) are all wrong.

Gotcha.'


Also, I went fishing the other day for 3 hours in a cement pond and didn't get a nibble. Therefore, all reports of people ever being able to fish are clearly wrong and a lie.
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All you've provided is an opinion that it would suppress the vote among minorities and the elderly.
 
#89
#89
volinbham said:
All you've provided is an opinion that it would suppress the vote among minorities and the elderly.
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I see a lot of minorities and elderly people driving cars, writing checks and buying booze. Obtaining a photo ID is nowhere near as hard as LG is claiming it is.
 
#90
#90
Well I for one am shocked! LG has a source that is suspect? The next thing will be GS with a bogus source.
Shocked!
 
#91
#91
lawgator1 said:
Ok, you helped how many people do this and I didn't, therefore you are right and I (and all of the unbiased reviews and actual evidence on the issue) are all wrong.

Gotcha.'


Also, I went fishing the other day for 3 hours in a cement pond and didn't get a nibble. Therefore, all reports of people ever being able to fish are clearly wrong and a lie.
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I, well, my wife(got me again) have helped one kid through the assistance system successfully.

I've helped no one get a photo ID because no one has needed that help, it is simply too easy to do.

You've produced no actual personally experienced evidence of anyone who has been prevented from voting and Florida has a photo ID law. You should be able to walk out on the street and ask anyone who looked poor or old and produce your evidence with ease. So, either you are unwilling to talk to poor people or unable to find your evidence.

The last statement I guess is just a red herring...
 
#92
#92
BTW the guy who wrote the wikipage?

User:JamesMLane - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

James M. Lane

Brief bio

White, male, middle-aged, attorney, New York City resident. Hostile to the right wing and the parapsychology/quackery mindset. Anyone who wants to bother wikilinking any more of that stuff, feel free.

This user is a spelling champ and spells "pejorative" with only one r.
 
#94
#94
YorkVol said:
I, well, my wife(got me again) have helped one kid through the assistance system successfully.

I've helped no one get a photo ID because no one has needed that help, it is simply too easy to do.

You've produced no actual personally experienced evidence of anyone who has been prevented from voting and Florida has a photo ID law. You should be able to walk out on the street and ask anyone who looked poor or old and produce your evidence with ease. So, either you are unwilling to talk to poor people or unable to find your evidence.

The last statement I guess is just a red herring...
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Let me ask you this, and please be honest.

I doubt very seriously that you helped him through that process so he could vote, correct? He's probably not even old enough. You did those things to help him get an education and various services for which he might be eligible.

Imagine that the person is 80 years old, with no caring person to really help them, and they are supposed to get these forms, find birth certificates (that may not exist) or what have you, marshall all of that together, and then take all that down to some office, all so as to be able to vote once every 2-4 years.

Honestly, those of you claiming that its "easy" and that they just ought to go do it look pretty silly, imo.
 
#95
#95
YorkVol said:
BTW the guy who wrote the wikipage?

User:JamesMLane - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

James M. Lane

Brief bio

White, male, middle-aged, attorney, New York City resident. Hostile to the right wing and the parapsychology/quackery mindset. Anyone who wants to bother wikilinking any more of that stuff, feel free.

This user is a spelling champ and spells "pejorative" with only one r.
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This is why I encouraged you to go to the linked sources and not rely on the article, itself.
 
#97
#97
KiffinKiller said:
I only talk to the poor when I feel bad about myself.
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I only talk to the poor to say "I don't have any change" or "get a job you dirty bum"

then I adjust my monocle, twist the corner of my waxed mustache, climb into my limousine, and order my minority driver to "take me away"
 
#98
#98
lawgator1 said:
Let me ask you this, and please be honest.

I doubt very seriously that you helped him through that process so he could vote, correct? He's probably not even old enough. You did those things to help him get an education and various services for which he might be eligible.

Imagine that the person is 80 years old, with no caring person to really help them, and they are supposed to get these forms, find birth certificates (that may not exist) or what have you, marshall all of that together, and then take all that down to some office, all so as to be able to vote once every 2-4 years.

Honestly, those of you claiming that its "easy" and that they just ought to go do it look pretty silly, imo.
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Sigh, I'm being silly.

Ok, here is an excerpt from the Florida Division of Elections web page:

Voting at the PollsBack

On Election Day, the polls are open from 7 a.m. until 7 p.m. and are normally less busy during the mid-morning and mid-afternoon.

If you do not know the location of your polling place, contact your Supervisor of Elections. Also, Supervisors of Elections have precinct and polling place finders on their web sites to provide you with the information on where to vote.

At the polls, you will be asked to provide a valid picture identification with signature. The following photo ids will be accepted:

Florida driver’s license
Florida identification card issued by the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles
United States passport
Debit or credit card
Military identification
Student identification
Retirement center identification
Neighborhood association identification
Public assistance identification.

If your photo identification does not contain your signature, you will be asked to provide an additional identification that includes a signature.

If you do not have the proper identification, you will be provided with a provisional ballot. Your provisional ballot will count if the signature on the provisional ballot envelope matches the signature on your voter registration application.
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So, I could ask how an 80 year old person with no drivers license and no close family or friend to help him/her gets to the polls, but I realize the polling place could very well be in walking distance as they are in my town. But, the last part says even if the person doesn't have proper identification, they get to vote on a provisional ballot. The signatures are compared and the vote counts.

If your polling places are like mine, they have pretty much the same people staffing them every year. So, unless your 80 year old person just moved to town, chances are he or she has voted many times before and they are well known to most of the people there. Their vote will count just like everyone else's.
 
#99
#99
lawgator1 said:
Let me ask you this, and please be honest.

I doubt very seriously that you helped him through that process so he could vote, correct? He's probably not even old enough. You did those things to help him get an education and various services for which he might be eligible.

Imagine that the person is 80 years old, with no caring person to really help them, and they are supposed to get these forms, find birth certificates (that may not exist) or what have you, marshall all of that together, and then take all that down to some office, all so as to be able to vote once every 2-4 years.

Honestly, those of you claiming that its "easy" and that they just ought to go do it look pretty silly, imo.
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Sorry to double quote but I realize I didn't answer the question. Yes, we did it to help him get registered for school and get medical/dental/eye exams that he hadn't had ever, in 16 years. He'll be a junior when he turns 18, but I'll be teaching him to drive in about 6 months so technically, I'll also be equipping him to vote in any state with a photo ID law(which we don't have yet). Even if he doesn't pass his driving test, he could use his student ID to vote.

In Pennsylvania we vote every year, not every 2-4 years.
 
#100
#100
YorkVol said:
Sorry to double quote but I realize I didn't answer the question. Yes, we did it to help him get registered for school and get medical/dental/eye exams that he hadn't had ever, in 16 years. He'll be a junior when he turns 18, but I'll be teaching him to drive in about 6 months so technically, I'll also be equipping him to vote in any state with a photo ID law(which we don't have yet). Even if he doesn't pass his driving test, he could use his student ID to vote.

In Pennsylvania we vote every year, not every 2-4 years.
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Are you also telling him to play his football at Ole Miss?
 
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