The Atlanta Braves (thread 1)

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#10,851
#10,851
Vercingetorix said:
Then why would you let them sit there in watch with the bases loaded in the 8th inning when the game is on the line, just because it's not a "save situation" yet? You could close out most of your three-run games by letting a freaking shortstop come in and pitch. Managers probably waste a third of their closers' appearances, and they lose games they should win because the closer never pitches.



I'm not talking about a closer by committee. I'm talking about a manger who goes to his best relief pitcher and says, "You are my closer. You are my stopper. I'm going to use you about 70 times this year, and I'm going to use you in the situations when I think the game is on the line and I need outs. Most of time that'll be in the 9th inning, but sometimes it'll be in the 8th with the other team's best hitters up, and sometimes it'll be in a tie game with runners on base. I'm going to use you whenever we need outs the most, not whenever the stat sheet says you'll get a save."

"Closer by committee" is a euphemism for "we don't really have anybody very good at all in the bullpen." That's not what I'm talking about at all.
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Well by that line of thinking, you'll be using a second rate reliever when the game is on the line in the 9th, I'd much rather risk that in the earlier innings, but whatever works for you I guess.
 
#10,852
#10,852
VOLinthaATL said:
Clueless. The role of closer is as much mental as it is physical. Not every guy has the make up to do it. I don't care if he has a 3 run lead or a 1 run lead. It's still closing the game out and some guys aren't cut out for it.
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I have to hand it to you, you're consistent in believing all the cliches. From Tim McCarver's mouth into your ears. Twenty years ago you would have been arguing that the five-man rotation is an abomination.

You could use the 12th arm on the staff to close out three-run leads and you'd still win almost every time. Just because they play "Enter Sandman" and the guy runs in through a smoke machine doesn't mean that it takes a rock star to pitch in the 9th inning. Remember how the Braves successfully used Kerry Freaking Ligtenberg to finish out games a few years ago?
 
#10,853
#10,853
Well that was a good battle by Jurrjens. Bases loaded 2 outs isn't a great time for the pitcher to be up, but he made the guy throw some pitches!
 
#10,854
#10,854
#1ArencibiaFan said:
Well by that line of thinking, you'll be using a second rate reliever when the game is on the line in the 9th, I'd much rather risk that in the earlier innings, but whatever works for you I guess.
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Eighth inning, up by one, first and third, nobody out. There's less margin of error right now than there will be to start out the 9th with the bases empty. You need outs RIGHT NOW. Whoever pitches the 9th can give up a couple of hits without it necessarily killing you, but whoever comes in right now can't give up anything.

And yet now is when you'd bring in the second-rate reliever. And when he gives up the lead, you're still not going to use your closer in the 9th because it's not a save situation anymore. And then you lose, and he never got in the game. But he does get to pitch the next night, when you've got a three-run lead and the bottom of the order coming up. Ho hum.

I can't see how this maximizes the usefulness of a guy who, as you said, "you can count on to get three outs no matter who they face."
 
#10,860
#10,860
Vercingetorix said:
This is the second time in a row Jurrjens has seemed to lose focus a little bit after being given a big lead. 10-5 in Coors feels a whole lot different than 10-2, doesn't it?
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10-6 feels even more different.

we're going to need to score at least 3 more runs to win this game - another typical slugfest in Denver.
 
#10,862
#10,862
this would be a pretty tough loss to take - they need to win as much for the team's psyche as another number in the W column.
 
#10,863
#10,863
This is exactly what I'm talking about. The Braves are bleeding all over the place right now. They've got to stop the Rockies right here. Why not bring in at least Venters to stop this rally right here?
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#10,865
#10,865
Vercingetorix said:
This is exactly what I'm talking about. The Braves are bleeding all over the place right now. They've got to stop the Rockies right here. Why not bring in at least Venters to stop this rally right here?
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Apparently so he can use him against Helton in the 7th.
 
#10,866
#10,866
Vercingetorix said:
This is exactly what I'm talking about. The Braves are bleeding all over the place right now. They've got to stop the Rockies right here. Why not bring in at least Venters to stop this rally right here?
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Apparently so he can use him against all these lefties in the 7th inning.
 
#10,868
#10,868
GAVol said:
Apparently so he can use him against all these lefties in the 7th inning.
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. . . and if you just saw the swing Todd Helton took to strike out, you can see why he saved Venters for this portion of their batting order.

95 mph and sinking from the left side is flat out nasty.
 
#10,869
#10,869
Vercingetorix said:
His arm can't handle the workload Cox puts on him. 80 games, Tommy John surgery, 87 games, over 60 games so far this year. I'm worried about Venters.
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So you wanted him in the game last inning, but now you're worried about his workload?

Seriously . . . I agree. He needs to be careful with Venters before he goes the way of Brad Clontz, Peter Moylan etc.
 
#10,870
#10,870
GAVol said:
Apparently so he can use him against Helton in the 7th.
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That's fine, but I would like to have seen him in there against lefty Carlos Gonzalez with a runner on and the hemorrhage still in full flower. It worked out, though.

Good for Bobby for bringing Venters in an inning "early," though. That's something.
 
#10,871
#10,871
GAVol said:
So you wanted him in the game last inning, but now you're worried about his workload?

Seriously . . . I agree. He needs to be careful with Venters before he goes the way of Brad Clontz, Peter Moylan etc.
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Let's just say that I knew there was zero chance Venters wouldn't pitch today, and so therefore I thought it might be a good idea to go ahead and use him to stop the bleeding and get Carlos Gonzalez out. If that screaming foul ball off O'Flaherty had hit a foot and a half to the right, the game would be tied and I'd be yelling about how I was right.

These are games when I want Cox to use Venters. I don't get why he brought him in, for example, on Sunday against the Cubs with a four- or five-run lead.
 
#10,873
#10,873
I guess the Braves thought they were done playing when they got a 10-1 lead. How many baserunners have they even had in the last five innings?
 
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