The Atlanta Braves Thread (Javy Lopez Edition)

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#8,477
#8,477
Vercingetorix said:
Every dynasty looks immortal when you're in the middle of it. They never are.
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I'd be willing to put a sizable sum of money on the fact that UT doesn't beat Bama again until he leaves. Aside from our own fall from grace, I'm having a hard time of thinking of a college football juggernaut that simply eroded away from the inside while the guy who initially led them to greatness was still at the helm. I'm sure I'm wrong, but I just can think of an example.
 
#8,479
#8,479
bleedorange0037 said:
I'd be willing to put a sizable sum of money on the fact that UT doesn't beat Bama again until he leaves. Aside from our own fall from grace, I'm having a hard time of thinking of a college football juggernaut that simply eroded away from the inside while the guy who initially led them to greatness was still at the helm. I'm sure I'm wrong, but I just can think of an example.
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USC and Pete Carroll
 
#8,482
#8,482
bleedorange0037 said:
True. We can always just hope that Saban eventually gets busted for cheating. Any idea of another example besides UT where a NC winning coach also bottomed out the program without any major sanctions?
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There's a big difference between bottoming out and losing that upper echelon spot. Mack Brown and Texas have fallen a pretty good bit. FSU took a pretty bad dip under Bowden before the sanctions came.
 
#8,485
#8,485
bleedorange0037 said:
I'd be willing to put a sizable sum of money on the fact that UT doesn't beat Bama again until he leaves. Aside from our own fall from grace, I'm having a hard time of thinking of a college football juggernaut that simply eroded away from the inside while the guy who initially led them to greatness was still at the helm. I'm sure I'm wrong, but I just can think of an example.
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Alabama is in the middle of the greatest run in college football history. We've had losing seasons in four out of the last five years. They could fall a long, long way and still be considerably better than we are. Saban himself is almost beside the point with regard to a nonentity like us.

I am not suggesting that Bama is likely to start being an 8-4 team every year while Saban is there. But this run of championships is not going to go on forever.
 
#8,486
#8,486
bleedorange0037 said:
True. We can always just hope that Saban eventually gets busted for cheating. Any idea of another example besides UT where a NC winning coach also bottomed out the program without any major sanctions?
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He didn't hang around long enough for see it happen, but the grumbling about Spurrier at Florida was already seriously under way before he left for the NFL.

Obviously Urban Meyer's program at Florida looked invincible right up until it cratered.

Woody Hayes.

It happens sometimes.
 
#8,487
#8,487
Vercingetorix said:
He didn't hang around long enough for see it happen, but the grumbling about Spurrier at Florida was already seriously under way before he left for the NFL.

Obviously Urban Meyer's program at Florida looked invincible right up until it cratered.

Woody Hayes.

It happens sometimes.
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This was really what I was driving at. Many of the elite coaches are able to see the fall before it actually comes, and get out ahead of the disaster. Like you said, Alabama could fall off considerably and we could elevate ourselves considerably, and Bama would still probably be the better team. I just don't see Saban fielding a team bad enough to lose to UT as long as he's there, and honestly, I don't think he'll be there THAT much longer. I would be shocked if he stays in Tuscaloosa for much more than 5 more seasons.
 
#8,490
#8,490
It's also worth considering that Saban's old-school "pound the ball and play bruising defense" style of football, much as I admire it, is going to get squeezed hard as the sport changes in response to the head-injury concerns. Whether that process goes fast enough to affect Saban himself remains to be seen, but just about every rule change that comes along is going to work against the way he wants his teams to play football.
 
#8,491
#8,491
Vercingetorix said:
It's also worth considering that Saban's old-school "pound the ball and play bruising defense" style of football, much as I admire it, is going to get squeezed hard as the sport changes in response to the head-injury concerns. Whether that process goes fast enough to affect Saban himself remains to be seen, but just about every rule change that comes along is going to work against the way he wants his teams to play football.
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Huh? Does he specifically teach his players to go high and/or launch themselves at an opponents head?

I also, see nothing in terms of rule changes that will prevent him from continuing to run a pro-style, smash mouth offense.
 
#8,492
#8,492
Vercingetorix said:
It's also worth considering that Saban's old-school "pound the ball and play bruising defense" style of football, much as I admire it, is going to get squeezed hard as the sport changes in response to the head-injury concerns. Whether that process goes fast enough to affect Saban himself remains to be seen, but just about every rule change that comes along is going to work against the way he wants his teams to play football.
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As much as I loathe the guy because he's Bama's coach, his teams play the game the way it was meant to be played. Like you, I'm going to miss watching that style of play once rule changes make it an style with which you cannot win. Apparently there's no place for defense in the modern game.
 
#8,493
#8,493
VOLinthaNATI said:
Huh? Does he specifically teach his players to go high and/or launch themselves at an opponents head?

I also, see nothing in terms of rule changes that will prevent him from continuing to run a pro-style, smash mouth offense.
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It's the winning with defense that's going to get phased out. His offenses have rarely been top-shelf, but they control the ball and score enough points when coupled with a punishing defense that never lets other teams score.
 
#8,494
#8,494
VOLinthaNATI said:
Huh? Does he specifically teach his players to go high and/or launch themselves at an opponents head?

I also, see nothing in terms of rule changes that will prevent him from continuing to run a pro-style, smash mouth offense.
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I'm not talking about any rule changes this year. I'm talking about how, over the next 10-15 years, college football is probably going to become something that looks more like today's 7 on 7 drills than what we think of as real football. Eventually there will be changes to protect linemen -- who are at least as at risk of CTE as skill players, and whom these anti-"targeting" rules do nothing to protect -- and at that point the smashmouth goes out of football. I don't know how far Saban's career will extend during this process, but it's coming.
 
#8,496
#8,496
bleedorange0037 said:
I'd be willing to put a sizable sum of money on the fact that UT doesn't beat Bama again until he leaves. Aside from our own fall from grace, I'm having a hard time of thinking of a college football juggernaut that simply eroded away from the inside while the guy who initially led them to greatness was still at the helm. I'm sure I'm wrong, but I just can think of an example.
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Kiffin was a cluster**** away from beating them with nothing. C'mon
 
#8,497
#8,497
TBrown said:
Kiffin was a cluster**** away from beating them with nothing. C'mon
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That was also one of the three worst games that Saban's teams have played since he's been at Bama. Our current team is even worse than that 09 team, so we've got a LONG way to go to have a shot at being competitive.
 
#8,498
#8,498
Yeah, Kiffin's '09 team and staff probably beat team #117. If we are within 7 at any point after the first 15 mins against Bama, at that part of the year, then CBJ is earning every penny.
 
#8,499
#8,499
Mr_Henley said:
Yeah, Kiffin's '09 team and staff probably beat team #117. If we are within 7 at any point after the first 15 mins against Bama, at that part of the year, then CBJ is earning every penny.
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I don't know about that. Even Dooley was able to keep it within 3 at half with Matt Simms as QB. I don't care much about halftime scores
 
#8,500
#8,500
Vercingetorix said:
I'm not talking about any rule changes this year. I'm talking about how, over the next 10-15 years, college football is probably going to become something that looks more like today's 7 on 7 drills than what we think of as real football. Eventually there will be changes to protect linemen -- who are at least as at risk of CTE as skill players, and whom these anti-"targeting" rules do nothing to protect -- and at that point the smashmouth goes out of football. I don't know how far Saban's career will extend during this process, but it's coming.
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Fair enough. Was just curious.
 
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