The Auburn Postgame Report

[bleedingTNorange]

I dont really care what he does im not the coach not my place to fix it or give hypothetical solutions. All I know is that we are 20+ games into the season and his team has not gotten any better on the offensive end. Playing great defensively tho love that part.

no but usually if people criticize something they have an idea what they would do to fix the problem. and heres the thing with ccm, he doesnt give 2 sheets about offense so you may want to realize that. he is going to take what they get on offense, but he isnt going to spend the majority of his time harping on it just trying to fix simple things. ccm is going to spend the vast majority of his time on defense and getting his team to play defense, he doesnt really care if the offense improves because in his mind if the defense improves enough it will more than make up for the lack of offense. look at what his teams scored at missouri state...the days of averaging in the 80's are overs my friend, get used to basketball in the 60's. with that said, i do expect the offense to look more fluid and less turnovers as time goes along,especially if he lands some of these good recruits, but his offense is never going to be high scoring and flashy ccm hangs his hat on defense.

 

[RhodesVol]

ramar had a lower fg%, a lower 3pt %, a lower ft%, scored fewer points, averaged less assists, averaged more turnovers, less rebounds, and less blocks. clearly goldenn is better in every facit of the game, i agree ramar was a better finisher but that is litterly it.

goins also had a lower fg%, 3pt %, lower ft%, scored fewer points, averages less assist and averaged more turnovers. as ive stated golden is here and now so everybody wants to hate but he is an upgrade clearly over everyone except maybe bobby maze.

you would be hard pressed to find many games that he has had that were worse than ramar or goins. even tonight 11 pts 4 rebounds 2 assists is better than what youd get from those guys on their better nights, and this was a bad night for golden.

This more than anything simply explains how lacking in talent we are at the other opinions. Golden looks much worse because he is forced to do more, and as a result, his mistakes are far more noticeable.

 

[zansdad]

what do you propose CCM do with the offense? you have to have the horses to compete man. he's tried tatum that's failed, richardson has no offense, skylar can only shoot once in awhile from 3, mcrae played good tonight but thats a first. whats your solution at guard?

I would really like to see some offense with the ball on one side with Stokes and Maymon running a high/low action, the ball in Golden's hands on the wing with Richardson at the top of the key running the point. Put Mcbee on the backside, outside the arc. This creates a triangle with you best 3 players, puts your best on ball defender in a position to get back (plus Richardson is tall enough to see over the defense from the top) and if people try to double McBee is left alone behind the arc. McBee has been consistent when he is open, but his athleticism prevents him from getting open himself, he either needs plays run for him or offensive sets that force his man to chose between guarding him or doubling or big men.

As for McBee's defense, he works at it and honestly a lot of the grief people give him is undeserved. Everyone gets beat on defense every game, if not games would all end be played in the 40's. For some reason people just seem to obsess about it when it's McBee.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

This more than anything simply explains how lacking in talent we are at the other opinions. Golden looks much worse because he is forced to do more, and as a result, his mistakes are far more noticeable.

exactly. golden is the guy who gets noticed even with maymon and stokes dominating they do it rather quietly so all eyes see golden. like ive said, its human nature for people to put more of an importance on what they see in the present time and are quick to forget about the past.

 

[zansdad]

Their RPI is better than ours, does that mean anything to anybody?

Winning games helps your RPI more than anything else. Auburn's higher RPI is probably a product of them having 12 wins and us just having 9.

 

[Plateauvol]

This is not finished product. Give it time. I do think Golden will eventually become a very capable PG. I counted 3 times tonight when he penatrated and Maymon had his man on his back with no one between him & Golden and yet Golden threw up that little runner of his. It will click with him hopefully this season, especially practicing against the transfer from Clemson.

 

[zansdad]

you obviously dont remember the days of jordan howell and ramar smith, hell even melvin goins? our minds are set up to remember the most recent things strongest so it seems that way but i can assure you he is not the worst.

who?

Used to kill me when the shot clock would go below 15 seconds, he would actually turn his back to the basket and dribble back out to half court, nice and slow. Someone should have charted how much of UT's possessions were spent with Goins dribbling the ball either standing still or going the wrong direction.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

I would really like to see some offense with the ball on one side with Stokes and Maymon running a high/low action, the ball in Golden's hands on the wing with Richardson at the top of the key running the point. Put Mcbee on the backside, outside the arc. This creates a triangle with you best 3 players, puts your best on ball defender in a position to get back (plus Richardson is tall enough to see over the defense from the top) and if people try to double McBee is left alone behind the arc. McBee has been consistent when he is open, but his athleticism prevents him from getting open himself, he either needs plays run for him or offensive sets that force his man to chose between guarding him or doubling or big men.

As for McBee's defense, he works at it and honestly a lot of the grief people give him is undeserved. Everyone gets beat on defense every game, if not games would all end be played in the 40's. For some reason people just seem to obsess about it when it's McBee.

well stokes, maymon, and golden all did a great job of driving or posting and kicking to an open mcbee or tatum as you suggest we try. you know what they combined for from 3? 2-13! those are your 3 point shooters. this is why ccm doesnt want to run an offense like that. i would like to see flat out simple post up action, clear it out and let maymon and stokes go to work.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Winning games helps your RPI more than anything else. Auburn's higher RPI is probably a product of them having 12 wins and us just having 9.

actually your rpi can suffer from beating teams with a very low rpi, seriously. auburn had 2 sec wins to our 1, im not suggesting they were better than us, but as bad as it sounds that is the level we are on guys. it is now the job of this team to raise that level and perception to the upper class of the sec.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Used to kill me when the shot clock would go below 15 seconds, he would actually turn his back to the basket and dribble back out to half court, nice and slow. Someone should have charted how much of UT's possessions were spent with Goins dribbling the ball either standing still or going the wrong direction.

this is usually around the time the remote went flying into the wall.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

This is not finished product. Give it time. I do think Golden will eventually become a very capable PG. I counted 3 times tonight when he penatrated and Maymon had his man on his back with no one between him & Golden and yet Golden threw up that little runner of his. It will click with him hopefully this season, especially practicing against the transfer from Clemson.

exactly. many are quick to forget this is really trae's first year ever playing PG. give the guy some time, nothing will be better for him than experience and an off-season preparing and developing at the position. i look for a huge improvement next year.

 

[zansdad]

no but usually if people criticize something they have an idea what they would do to fix the problem. and heres the thing with ccm, he doesnt give 2 sheets about offense so you may want to realize that. he is going to take what they get on offense, but he isnt going to spend the majority of his time harping on it just trying to fix simple things. ccm is going to spend the vast majority of his time on defense and getting his team to play defense, he doesnt really care if the offense improves because in his mind if the defense improves enough it will more than make up for the lack of offense. look at what his teams scored at missouri state...the days of averaging in the 80's are overs my friend, get used to basketball in the 60's. with that said, i do expect the offense to look more fluid and less turnovers as time goes along,especially if he lands some of these good recruits, but his offense is never going to be high scoring and flashy ccm hangs his hat on defense.

I don't know about that, Martin has said on numerous occasions that he doesn't want his guys passing up good looks. He has shown with Cam that if a guy is hustling, rebounding, and defending he will give some slack on taking shots. The problem is not Martin's coaching style, its that the guys on this team are not consistent knock down shooters. Tatum took 6 3pt FG tonight, all wide open all in rhythm and made ZERO. That's not a coaching philosophy, that's a player thing. At the beginning of the season, this team was near the top in the country in 3pg FG percentages, attempts, and makes a game. Heck look at Vandy's team and how they play on offense, and Martin and Stallings run basically the same stuff. The difference is the players.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

I don't know about that, Martin has said on numerous occasions that he doesn't want his guys passing up good looks. He has shown with Cam that if a guy is hustling, rebounding, and defending he will give some slack on taking shots. The problem is not Martin's coaching style, its that the guys on this team are not consistent knock down shooters. Tatum took 6 3pt FG tonight, all wide open all in rhythm and made ZERO. That's not a coaching philosophy, that's a player thing. At the beginning of the season, this team was near the top in the country in 3pg FG percentages, attempts, and makes a game. Heck look at Vandy's team and how they play on offense, and Martin and Stallings run basically the same stuff. The difference is the players.

where did i question this? if you go back and read some of my posts i clearly state this that martin tells his guys to let it fly and dont hesitate. i then go on to say, it will be interesting if he changes that philosophy with the guys on this team, because they arent what he's use to having.

 

[zansdad]

well stokes, maymon, and golden all did a great job of driving or posting and kicking to an open mcbee or tatum as you suggest we try. you know what they combined for from 3? 2-13! those are your 3 point shooters. this is why ccm doesnt want to run an offense like that. i would like to see flat out simple post up action, clear it out and let maymon and stokes go to work.

What did McBee shot from 3? Of those 12 misses you cite, 6 were Tatum. When Tatum is hot he can shoot with anyone, the problem is, when he is not hot, he usually cannot shake it.

And unless you see something I don't Stokes and Maymon work better together. Neither is especially proficient 1-on-1 in the paint right now since they are both undersized at their positions. Against most teams in the SEC, Maymon struggles to get a shot up if you just post him up on the low block. Thus why they have gone to a more high/low action recently. Both Stokes and Maymon are excellent passers.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

What did McBee shot from 3? Of those 12 misses you cite, 6 were Tatum. When Tatum is hot he can shoot with anyone, the problem is, when he is not hot, he usually cannot shake it.

And unless you see something I don't Stokes and Maymon work better together. Neither is especially proficient 1-on-1 in the paint right now since they are both undersized at their positions. Against most teams in the SEC, Maymon struggles to get a shot up if you just post him up on the low block. Thus why they have gone to a more high/low action recently. Both Stokes and Maymon are excellent passers.

mcbee was 2 of 7...real great for a guy thats out there to do one thing.

stokes and maymon have excelled one on one i dont understand what you are saying? if maymon and stokes couldnt score 1 on 1 then teams wouldnt double team them, stokes and maymon are almost unguardable 1 on 1 in the post, they demand a double team. maymon is great at getting the ball about 12 feet out facing up and driving with either hand, most 5's cant keep up with him, he is exceptional 1 on 1. stokes abuses the opposition 1 on 1 as well, with the sweeping hook, the face up jumper. teams wouldnt double team these guys if the couldnt score 1 on 1, that doesnt make sense.

 

[zansdad]

actually your rpi can suffer from beating teams with a very low rpi, seriously. auburn had 2 sec wins to our 1, im not suggesting they were better than us, but as bad as it sounds that is the level we are on guys. it is now the job of this team to raise that level and perception to the upper class of the sec.

I understand playing a week schedule can hurt your RPI, but wins are a big part of it. As proof, from CBSSports.com. Auburn 12-8 RPI 131 SOS 141/Conf 19/Non-Conf 303.
UT 8-11 RPI 158 SOS 50/Conf 3/Non-Conf 161. Note those are before tonight's game, and they don't count UT's win against Chaminade.
Auburn's higher RPI is a product of wins not their strength of schedule.

 

[mtt2d]

Congrats to the Vols on another good home court victory. They played sloppy on offense at times, but they held Auburn to a season low 49 points. There are still several games left on the schedule and many opportunities to keep getting better. Go Vols!

 

[football junkie]

mcbee was 2 of 7...real great for a guy thats out there to do one thing.

stokes and maymon have excelled one on one i dont understand what you are saying? if maymon and stokes couldnt score 1 on 1 then teams wouldnt double team them, stokes and maymon are almost unguardable 1 on 1 in the post, they demand a double team. maymon is great at getting the ball about 12 feet out facing up and driving with either hand, most 5's cant keep up with him, he is exceptional 1 on 1. stokes abuses the opposition 1 on 1 as well, with the sweeping hook, the face up jumper. teams wouldnt double team these guys if the couldnt score 1 on 1, that doesnt make sense.

If Mcbee was out there for only one thing as you say, why not pull him and play Richardson for defense if nothing else. Must have been another reason he played 30 minutes

 

[bleedingTNorange]

I understand playing a week schedule can hurt your RPI, but wins are a big part of it. As proof, from CBSSports.com. Auburn 12-8 RPI 131 SOS 141/Conf 19/Non-Conf 303.
UT 8-11 RPI 158 SOS 50/Conf 3/Non-Conf 161. Note those are before tonight's game, and they don't count UT's win against Chaminade.
Auburn's higher RPI is a product of wins not their strength of schedule.

that 1 more sec win was the difference we will jump to around mid 120's with the win.

 

[zansdad]

where did i question this? if you go back and read some of my posts i clearly state this that martin tells his guys to let it fly and dont hesitate. i then go on to say, it will be interesting if he changes that philosophy with the guys on this team, because they arent what he's use to having.

you said "the days of averaging in the 80's are overs my friend, get used to basketball in the 60's."

I was disagreeing with this statement. and your implication (in this specific post) that this was a result of Martins philosophy about offense. We are playing basketball in the 60's not because of Martin's coaching style but because of the offensive talent level of his players. If he had goes that could knock down open looks, this team would be in the 80's every night, but he doesn't so they aren't. It's not that the offense looks stagnate (like last year) or that players are jacking up wild 3's (like earlier this year). It's a matter of making shots, which this team cannot do well ( and not turning it over 20 times a game helps too)

*I didn't mean to start a fight here. I just was pointing out something in one post. I didn't do 90 minute background check on your other posts to see what your normal vibe is on all things basketball. Sorry if I misinterpreted things.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

you said "the days of averaging in the 80's are overs my friend, get used to basketball in the 60's."

I was disagreeing with this statement. and your implication (in this specific post) that this was a result of Martins philosophy about offense. We are playing basketball in the 60's not because of Martin's coaching style but because of the offensive talent level of his players. If he had goes that could knock down open looks, this team would be in the 80's every night, but he doesn't so they aren't. It's not that the offense looks stagnate (like last year) or that players are jacking up wild 3's (like earlier this year). It's a matter of making shots, which this team cannot do well ( and not turning it over 20 times a game helps too)

*I didn't mean to start a fight here. I just was pointing out something in one post. I didn't do 90 minute background check on your other posts to see what your normal vibe is on all things basketball. Sorry if I misinterpreted things.

because they are over. this team as long as martin is the coach will never average in the 80's i guarantee it, there will be games where shots fall and we'll score 80 sure but not average 80. since martin has been a coach his teams havent averaged over 70 ppg, its just not his style of play. his guys at missouri state could shoot the lights out there but they didnt average 80, its a slow style of play. its hard to score 80 when you are slowing down the game, youd have to shoot about 65%.

 

[govols120]

Extremely sloppy and ugly game, but a good and much-needed victory. The sad thing is that I'm not even sure Auburn's shot selection was that bad tonight re: poor offensive numbers (compared to UConn, who took some of the most ill-advised shots I've seen this season), but that they're just that bad of a team.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

you said "the days of averaging in the 80's are overs my friend, get used to basketball in the 60's."

I was disagreeing with this statement. and your implication (in this specific post) that this was a result of Martins philosophy about offense. We are playing basketball in the 60's not because of Martin's coaching style but because of the offensive talent level of his players. If he had goes that could knock down open looks, this team would be in the 80's every night, but he doesn't so they aren't. It's not that the offense looks stagnate (like last year) or that players are jacking up wild 3's (like earlier this year). It's a matter of making shots, which this team cannot do well ( and not turning it over 20 times a game helps too)

*I didn't mean to start a fight here. I just was pointing out something in one post. I didn't do 90 minute background check on your other posts to see what your normal vibe is on all things basketball. Sorry if I misinterpreted things.

and vandy who you referenced earlier doesnt even average 80 my friend. they have averaged in the low 70's for the last 5 years, its a slow down style. your teams that average in the 80's are run and gun they dont take but about 10 seconds off the shot clock, so they have more possesions which equals more scoring.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

If Mcbee was out there for only one thing as you say, why not pull him and play Richardson for defense if nothing else. Must have been another reason he played 30 minutes

im sorry i should have clarified he is also out there for hustle, i included that earlier in the thread figured you had read it. mcbee hustles his butt off which is why he plays, im saying that his one big asset to the team is 3 point shooting, and if he isnt doing a good job at that then he isnt bringing a whole lot to the team, besides hustle. which in all honestly right now is worth a starting spot over tatum.

 

[zansdad]

mcbee was 2 of 7...real great for a guy thats out there to do one thing.

stokes and maymon have excelled one on one i dont understand what you are saying? if maymon and stokes couldnt score 1 on 1 then teams wouldnt double team them, stokes and maymon are almost unguardable 1 on 1 in the post, they demand a double team. maymon is great at getting the ball about 12 feet out facing up and driving with either hand, most 5's cant keep up with him, he is exceptional 1 on 1. stokes abuses the opposition 1 on 1 as well, with the sweeping hook, the face up jumper. teams wouldnt double team these guys if the couldnt score 1 on 1, that doesnt make sense.

lots of stuff there.
1) Based on your own posts (Martin is a defense 1st guy) McBee is not on the floor for only one thing. He hustles, he defends to the best of his ability (granted he is limited athletically),he is one of the few back court guys that makes good decisions night in and night out, he rebounds well for his height and position, and he adds a certain toughness some on this team lack (just watch him if he ever gets in a jump ball situation) And while 2-7 isn't great, it isn't horrible either (28%), simply making one of the 5 misses makes him 42% with is exception, and his season average.

2) 12 feet away is not the low post. Maybe I didn't state that. Maymon cannot beat a PF in the SEC 1-on-1 in the low post. He doesn't have enough lift to get his shot off. He shoots around people. Thus why he likes to face up and drive past his man.

3) Some teams have doubled Stokes, and he is a load for any PF in college basketball. BUT he is usually playing the 5 and is being guarded by a man 2 to 3 inches taller than him. Thus he has also looked his best when he is 10-12ft from the basket, again, not what I think of as the low post.

4) I don't think Vandy double either of these guys and I doubt that Kentucky or Florida will either. Other than the fact that UT is turnover prone and a quick aggressive double team tends to lead to quick turn over's against UT. Georgia doubled them I believe, but Georgia wasn't very deep or talented in the paint.