The big what if

#51
#51
rocktopper16 said:
I say this because I was talking with some neighbors (Auburn & Miami fans)

They kept asking me what if Butch has another losing season. I really didn't respond as I believe we get to 7 wins including our bowl game.

But,As rational as we are and how urgent we are to win. What if we have a losing season, What if we lose to the hated commodores. Will you still have faith in butch or will you be wanting answers.
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Should we have a losing season, I would look at it as us having (1) Too many freshmen at key positions (2) key injuries & (3) Scheduling.
 
#52
#52
I think that this team could win 6 or 7 and go bowling, I truly THINK its possible. BUT I really liked watching The Mighty Ducks when I was younger too with Emilio Estevez. This isnt a movie folks, good things can happen, but we are REPLACING the lines on BOTH sides of the ball. There are alot of SEC teams with lines full of seniors that will get the crap beat of them this year and be one of the main reasons that they will be at the bottom of the SEC. We have underclassmen and a few older guys with no starting experience. YIKES. Be careful on what you expect and check yourself. 6-6 with a bowl game will have a big positive effect on recruiting and thats what Im hoping for.! Its not like I dont want them to go 8-4 or 9-3 but just dont see it happening this year. GOOO VOOLLLSSS!
 
#53
#53
It would suck to go 5-7 again but wouldn't be unexpected. But if CBJ loses to any inferior teams this year, I will be very concerned.
 
#54
#54
If he has another losing season, it's pretty much a sure bet he will never win a championship here, based purely on odds and recent history. How many other top quality coaches ever inherited a 5-7 program and couldn't get them to even just a .500 record in two years time?
 
#55
#55
5-7 and I'm still full Butch. But next season a losing season is unacceptable.
 
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#56
#56
oregonvol said:
If he has another losing season, it's pretty much a sure bet he will never win a championship here, based purely on odds and recent history. How many other top quality coaches ever inherited a 5-7 program and couldn't get them to even just a .500 record in two years time?
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Huh? Way too much generalization here. You'd have to look at each instance separately, there are entirely too many variables to take into account. How many of those coaches that took over 5-7 programs and got them above .500 in year two had the coaching turmoil that we had? The players leaving/kicked off? The schedule? et al.
 
#57
#57
5-7 for me is unacceptable. This would be the 5th year in a row that we lost seven games and our 4th straight 5-7 season . I know Butch can recruit better than Dooley , but at some time he needs to show me , he and his staff can coach better than Dooley , and for me that time is now .
 
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#58
#58
Quaint88 said:
I agree. Losing to Vanderbilt is simply unacceptable. The talent levels are not even close. If Butch starts his coaching tenure with two Vandy losses, I don't see how recruiting is going to help him. The talent to beat Vanderbilt has been there all along. I was too quick to jump on the bandwagon for Kiffin and Dooley. I'm not going to make that mistake again, even though Butch is doing a lot of good in areas they didn't. Keeping the recruiting class together despite the Vandy loss earned Butch a one-time pass for that terrible coaching performance, but in general we can't be satisfied with a coach who doesn't beat Vanderbilt like it's a bodily function. The jury is definitely still out.
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It's unfortunate for Butch that he's following a couple of guys who didn't meet our expectations. There's an element of our fanbase that's gun shy so he's dealing with a wait and see attitude that Kiffin and Dooley didn't have to deal with so much. He's handled it well so far.
 
#59
#59
Here we go again........

Start firing coaches again and your seeing where you'll be for the next decade, how's coaching changes worked for us to this point? I'm patient this staff is doin great just need time. Fans don't realize that we might as well been starting this program from nothing. People media included don't realize how bad a shape this program was in. The only thing I will say at the end of the year is thanks bUTch for takin this job knowing the dumpster fire it was......Go VOLS
 
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#60
#60
My analysis:

Worst case scenario: 4-8 - not likely but highly possible despite what some of our fans would have you believe. Not a job killer but definitely a seat heater.

Middle case: 5-7 - completely feasible, not even really a seat heater as long as the recruiting class holds but definitely puts much bigger expectations on next year.

Best cases 6-6/7-5+ - go .500 and get us to a bowl game and lose it, and the season will be a success in my eyes even because just getting there will be huge for the team, program, and recruiting. Win it and go 7-6 and even better for the aforementioned. Go 7-5 and assure a winning season for the first time in years even if we lose a bowl, and everyone should be sold. In that case next season can only be better as we get deeper and more talented/experienced. Also next year's schedule should be a little less brutal.
 
#61
#61
Boca Vol said:
I'm more interested in how the team plays vs. the record. For me, the record isn't that important when you're talking in the 6-6 range.

What do the losses look like? Is UT competitive against Oklahoma and Bama or are they blowouts? I can handle another 5-7 season if there's progress on the scoreboard.
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I'd rather beat Utah State and Vandy than lose close to Bama and OK. Analyzing a close loss gets involved almost to the point of subjectivity when you start looking things like injuries, snaps played by starters, when were points scored, officiating, etc. Some of Y'all have the football acumen to perform that analysis but many of us don't.
 
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#62
#62
VolunteerHillbilly said:
It's unfortunate for Butch that he's following a couple of guys who didn't meet our expectations. There's an element of our fanbase that's gun shy so he's dealing with a wait and see attitude that Kiffin and Dooley didn't have to deal with so much. He's handled it well so far.
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For me, it was more about just learning how to handle coaching changes in general because Fulmer was here for so long. Jones has definitely given more reasons to believe he's the guy than reasons not to at this point. I'd like to believe the Vandy loss was a one-time fluke for Jones. I hope he proves me right because I really like the guy.
 
#63
#63
FiremedicVOL127 said:
Here we go again........

Start firing coaches again and your seeing where you'll be for the next decade, how's coaching changes worked for us to this point? I'm patient this staff is doin great just need time. Fans don't realize that we might as well been starting this program from nothing. People media included don't realize how bad a shape this program was in. The only thing I will say at the end of the year is thanks bUTch for takin this job knowing the dumpster fire it was......Go VOLS
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Very well written. There is a huge perception and reality gap with UT football. UT fans think of UT's football program as college football royalty. The reality is that it's not at the moment.

Butch is doing everything correct off the field. He's recruiting out of his mind, he's embraced the fanbase and traditions of UT, he's mended fences with Alumni. IMO, he's earned the right to get a chance to prove it on the field. Is it this year? Is it next season? I don't know.

Another thing Vol fans do is turn back the clock. This isn't the SEC of the 1990's where there were 3 consistently good teams (UF, UT, & Bama) with Auburn, LSU, and UGA occasionally in the mix. This league is much tougher today!

Look at the recruiting numbers. According to Rivals, 10 of the top 20 teams are from the SEC and 7 out of the top 9! You can have a pretty good team and still finish with an 8-4 record.

I say don't get too caught up in the W/L's at this point but focus on how the team plays. The wins will come if Butch's effort on the field is equal to his efforts off the field.
 
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#64
#64
VolunteerHillbilly said:
I'd rather beat Utah State and Vandy than lose close to Bama and OK. Analyzing a close loss gets involved almost to the point of subjectivity when you start looking things like injuries, snaps played by starters, when were points scored, officiating, etc. Some of Y'all have the football acumen to perform that analysis but many of us don't.
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Losing to Utah State and Vandy aren't in the equation. Hopefully getting hammered buy Oklahoma and Bama aren't either.
 
#65
#65
Go 7-5 and assure a winning season for the first time in years even if we lose a bowl, and everyone should be sold.


I agree completely I just need better than 5-7 . I won't be in favor of firings outside of possibly a position coach or two
 
#66
#66
If Butch Jones was not hired as the coach, where do:) you think the program be today.
 
#67
#67
Wins are what counts therefore wins are what matters! Not recruiting stars, not words, not billions of rays of sunshine being pumped! Wins!!!! And he didn't have many last year!
 
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#68
#68
FiremedicVOL127 said:
Here we go again........

Start firing coaches again and your seeing where you'll be for the next decade, how's coaching changes worked for us to this point? I'm patient this staff is doin great just need time. Fans don't realize that we might as well been starting this program from nothing. People media included don't realize how bad a shape this program was in. The only thing I will say at the end of the year is thanks bUTch for takin this job knowing the dumpster fire it was......Go VOLS
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I don't get posts like this at all.

How has firing coaches worked out for us so far? Well, how has keeping them around when it was obvious they weren't going to win anything worked out? Name for us all the coaches who got fired that didn't deserve it. Name for us the coach that got fired who would have won big otherwise.

Also, I know the folks here like to pretend Butch took over a worse situation than anybody else, but I can't think of another situation where the coach gets paid 3 million a year and the fanbase is expected to be happy with back-to-back losing seasons. To some observers, it would appear he's hit a goldmine. Just think about it...last year he got to blame Dooley, this year he gets to blame inexperience, and then next year, the excuse will probably be a freshman quarterback. The guy is looking at pocketing over 10 millions before most of you guys expect any significant accomplishments on the field.
 
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#69
#69
Must beat Vandy

Must beat Kentucky

How long since we beat both in the same season? Too damn long.
 
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#70
#70
BoostN said:
Spot on..

The 2015 season almost has to have a bowl game (pending no crazy injuries).
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Almost in 2015?

It's a must. No questions asked.

This year though, it needs to happen. Won't make or break Butch unless he just has a complete WTF moment in a game or two we lose. Still, no chance he gets fired this season.
 
#71
#71
I'm expecting 5 wins this season so I just need to see that he retains some recruits and keeps adding to the foundation he's building. Many posters on here think that we are going to have an SEC run next year and the year after, but it's going to be much harder than that. Building a program is not just recruits, we need more classes to build depth and for the talent to mature and gain experience. Only then can we start expecting the Vols in Atlanta again.
 
#72
#72
People keep talking about losing to vandy and going 5-7, but what they don't realize is that even if we beat Vandy, we will also need to beat Mizzu (ranked 24 pre-season) to get to 6 wins. Based on the schedule we are a 4 to 5 win team. Anything more exceeds expectations. I am pretty confident that CBJ will get us at least 5 and beat UK and Vandy. But that 6th win requires an "upset" of someone.
 
#73
#73
5-7 this year = Butch better win 8 in 2015
5-7 2015 = Butch needs to GTFO

I believe a good football coach/recruiter can win 8 games by year 3. I'll give him 2016 if he makes bowls and shows improvement but 8 wins is REQUIRED for a coach to stay longer than 4 years at UT
 
#75
#75
jerrync said:
If Butch Jones was not hired as the coach, where do:) you think the program be today.
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I don't know , but if he finishes 5-7 , record wise it will be where it was when he took over , and God forbid should we go 4-8 , it will be worse
 
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