The Constitutional Case for Constitutionally Valid Secession

#102
#102
lawgator1 said:
I say we give Texas back to Mexico. Would solve a ton of problems.

Rick-Perry.jpg
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Give Florida back to Spain?
 
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#103
#103
They may have the 34 states needed. But is this going to open a Pandora's Box?

Nebraska Joins Call for Convention of States to Amend US Constitution

Under Article V of the Constitution, calling a convention to amend the U.S. constitution would require approval from two-thirds of U.S. states, or 34 of 50 states. According to the National Constitution Center, the measure is used to bypass Congress, but has never been accomplished before.
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According to the Convention of States Action, so far Georgia, Alaska, Florida, Alabama, Tennessee, Mississippi, Indiana, Wisconsin, Oklahoma, Louisiana, Arizona, North Dakota, Texas, Missouri, Arkansas, and Utah have approved a call for the convention, while 24 others are considering doing so.
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#105
#105
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#108
#108
hog88 said:
This is the last thing we need. A constitutional convention is a terrible idea at this point in time.
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A nation under stress should not be amending the constitution. That being said limiting the federal government both in spending, power and abolishing a few useless departments would be a good start.
 
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#109
#109
lawgator1 said:
Seems like the first thing the "scholars" who want to justify secession do when they've left the discussion panel is catch a flight home on an airline, made safe by federal regulation, authorities, and air traffic controllers.
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So flying outside the US is literally taking one's life in one's own hands because Washington does not control it?
 
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#111
#111
lawgator1 said:
What is it with present-day conservatives always trying to liken themselves to the founding fathers? And despite the fact they endorse a specific theocracy and reduced representation of the poor and least powerful in our society.

Remarkable.
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Answer: Because present-day Democrats are actually likening themselves to fascists. By point:

Islam is a medieval construct that hasn't undergone a New Testament humanization and is genetically incompatible with Western society. In fact, Muslims appear incompatible with everyone, including themselves. Otherwise, Christians don't routinely GAF about people of other religions or atheists.

A message of equal opportunity has always permeated conservative thought. It peaked in the populist Trump who recognized Dems were infatuated with Silicon Valley and Manhattan and given wholly over to the very power structures they claimed to be fighting for a century; they are the censors, the FBI and CIA, and the military that entertains CRT and socialism as things pertinent to national defense. They're the shitey mass of teacher unions and Marxian activists in teacher facade who see their place as fomenting revolution.

Trump took over that abandoned ground - the poor and least powerful - that Dems left behind (to the degree they ever believed it), and is the primary reason he is so hated by the left. He claimed ownership of that 'common, working person' space and single-handedly took the party with him.

You epitomize that DNC schizophrenia, at once belittling Trump voters as poor and uneducated while simultaneously posturing as FDR Democrats. And why not? - the new plantation-ruse worked on Southern whites and blacks for nearly 150 years until Republicans took over those state houses in 2010 on. I'd wager fewer than 5% of Dems even know that Clinton won the 'poor' vote even while denigrating them as Trump voters.

Your party is everything you've always professed to be against and you're an intellectual mess.
 
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#113
#113
The Ron Mexico said:
There will be zero states secede from the Union. It's a moot point (a cow's opinion). They are all too afraid of cutting the Federal umbilical cord that has supplied them with pork money for decades.
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The southern region - the most likely to consider secession, if any do - has the nation's highest regional GDP and plenty of oceanside real estate to conduct international and interstate business. That and the outflow from federal coffers are the very thing that Lincoln envisioned as the economic destruction of the Union states and likely the largest factor for invading the Confederacy.
 
#114
#114
NorthDallas40 said:
Only way we put a leash on the Feds if it ever happens at all
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I think the idea of this scares democrats, progressives, leftists and socialists more than conservatives, republicans and libertarians. One wants more power for the federal government while the other wants more in the hands of the states.
 
#115
#115
BreatheUT said:
I think the idea of this scares democrats, progressives, leftists and socialists more than conservatives, republicans and libertarians. One wants more power for the federal government while the other wants more in the hands of the states.
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Oh make no mistake all pols regardless of party are against it. However they aren’t really afraid since they keep us pitted against each other and our eye off the ball.
 
#116
#116
Honestly it wouldn't matter if we did. The letter agencies no longer work within the bounds of the constitution anyway. They are essentially above the law and any oversight. We allowed the very things that made us great and gave us liberty to be eroded over decades.

Nefarious agencies and the sponsors behind them are untouchable at this point and no amount of articulate wording in reworked founding documents will close Pandora's box.
 
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#117
#117
LouderVol said:
yeah lets not forget the rebellions they had put down back then. Shay's Rebellion and the Whiskey Rebellion. seems the founding fathers were willing to repress their citizens when a minority didn't agree.
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As an aside:
Every form of society is a tyranny along a Small-Great continuum. We form them for security, protection of our lives and rights, and commerce. Thus, even the most laissez-faire society will have impositions of the general populace upon the most aberrant among them. Not that you are, but it's the point people miss when discussing the suppression of tiny rebellions vs a much broader secession of 13 colonies or 11 states.
 
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#118
#118
Orange_Crush said:
The state or group of states would either become a sovereign nation, or a confederated sovereign nation with its own federal taxes. It could support its own infrastructure, probably much better and more efficiently than the currently bloated federal gov't.

Boo hoo at complicating things politically. Perhaps the Federal government should get back to representing its citizens.
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Exactly. I think the founders would exclaim "WTF people?!? We gave you a republic with d.c. checked by sovereign states and you devolve into vassal states paying D.C. tribute?"
 
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#119
#119
The question of the Constitutionality of Secession has already been decided, not by a Court but by a War. The secessionists lost. End of story.
That ship has sailed and it ain’t coming back. We better find a way to work out our differences amicably or we will eventually all be speaking Mandarin one day.
 
#121
#121
BreatheUT said:
I love this idea. I trust the individual states more than the federal government. This would be a reality check for the federal government where there are crooks on both sides.
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What a stupid comment. State governments are ridiculously easy to buy. Look at Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama. Single industries now control this states.
 
#122
#122
NCFisher said:
Islam is a medieval construct that hasn't undergone a New Testament humanization and is genetically incompatible with Western society. In fact, Muslims appear incompatible with everyone, including themselves. Otherwise, Christians don't routinely GAF about people of other religions or atheists.
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A distortion, at best. Your beef isn't with Islam, but a certain sect of Saudi Wahhabism that has been funded and supported by the KSA, Israel, UK and US.

Everything else in your post was pretty much spot on.
 
#123
#123
hog88 said:
Is there anyone you trust to have a fee hand at rewriting the constitution?
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It still requires 3/4 ratification to go into effect. That is a popular vote in believe I each state. Even if it’s legislatures it’s an uphill fight. Thus it’s DOA anyway. But I’d love for the precedent to be set that the states raise up and attempt to put a leash and collar on the Feds even though it’s probably a waste of time.
 
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