The death of a school's tradition?

#226
#226
Orange Bison said:
Irregardless of which side of this debate you fall on Co. Aytch is a great historical read. One of the very few personal accounts of a Confederate private. Most accounts were written by officers (both sides) or Union privates as many Confederate privates / foot soldiers couldn't read or write. Much like the German private Guy Sajer's account The Forgotten Soldier in regards to the brutal Eastern Front in WWII.
Click to expand...

You understand what this means don't you?
Most accounts of the war were written by officers (educated) or Union privates that had education in the cities. This is not claiming Watkins didn't write his own book (that is what you are attempting to relay, right?), that is one of the things that is so wonderful about it, a Confederate private's account of the war and why he was there and what he saw.
 
#227
#227
therealUT said:
No. I own The Forgotten Soldier. It is good fiction.
Click to expand...

You are a tool and I think you know you are.
Maybe you are not as educated or wealthy as I thought. Maybe you are a poor, dumb jerk like me.

What a pompous _______

How old are you?
 
#231
#231
gasguy98 said:
You are a tool and I think you know you are.
Maybe you are not as educated or wealthy as I thought. Maybe you are a poor, dumb jerk like me.

What a pompous _______

How old are you?
Click to expand...

Not wealthy. I'm almost thirty. I am very well read, though; I couple that with some pretty intense life experiences to form my opinions.

If you want to claim I am an ass, go for it. Wouldn't be the first time someone has made the claim. I am not a tool though; I definitely walked too many hours at USMA to be considered one.
 
#232
#232
IPorange said:
If celebrating them means celebrating the ownership of human beings and betraying the Constitution, I most certainly will not. I will remember them and respect the individuals involved, but not the cause.
Click to expand...

How do you feel about Lincolns suspension of the Writ of Habeas Corpus?

The arrest warrant he issued for Chief Justice Taney because he ruled it unconstitutional?

Slavery is/was wrong. No argument!!

But betraying the Constitution. Find me the Amendment of the Constitution that denies the right to secede
 
#233
#233
CountVolcula said:
How do you feel about Lincolns suspension of the Writ of Habeas Corpus?
I think it was terrible

The arrest warrant he issued for Chief Justice Taney because he ruled it unconstitutional?
see above
Slavery is/was wrong. No argument!!

But betraying the Constitution. Find me the Amendment of the Constitution that denies the right to secede
Click to expand...

Check the argument against secession I posted above. A state gets voted in, it is implicit that it can only leave by being voted out to be allowed to leave. States who enter the union have no ability supersede the will of the people (which is what gives the constitution it's power) after it has agreed to become part of the people.

Texas' claims of still having a right to secede are bunk. They are no different in how they entered the the Union than California or Vermont.
 
#234
#234
I still don't understand. It seems like everything is about whether or not it was okay for secession. That being said, I just don't really understand why people take pride in the flag. What good does it represent? What pride do people feel when claiming it as part of their heritage? I understand people will feel differently than I will, but I really just don't see the flag as anything other than a representation of treason, racism, and losing. What else has that flag ever stood for?
 
#235
#235
gasguy98 said:
I literally feel like I am banging my head against a brick wall. How can you remember the individuals involved without understanding what they were getting butchered for?

If you want to equate these men with ownership of human beings and treason, that is your right (eventhough the overwhelming majority didn't own a slave). I choose to remember and celebrate them differently.
Maybe I am a glass half full kind of guy and you are a glass half empty guy.
Click to expand...

It's pretty simple. They got butchered because their home states built an economy so dependent on human cattle that they had to go to war to keep it.

You can remember the people without celebrating the cause they were sent to war for. There's a picture of my great-grandfather, a decorated Confederate solider, hanging on the wall in my living room, but you sure as hell aren't going to see a Confederate flag flying in front of my house.
 
#236
#236
therealUT said:
No. I own The Forgotten Soldier. It is good fiction.
Click to expand...

In your opinion. Some historians find fault with it many don't. In no way does Sajer promote himself in the book or seek the spotlight. Quite the opposite. Which leads one to believe he wrote it as honestly as possible. But I'm sure you've been through many intense life experiences much worse to offer a better view on it. BTW- Co. Aytch has no doubters.
 
#237
#237
tvolsfan said:
I still don't understand. It seems like everything is about whether or not it was okay for secession. That being said, I just don't really understand why people take pride in the flag. What good does it represent? What pride do people feel when claiming it as part of their heritage? I understand people will feel differently than I will, but I really just don't see the flag as anything other than a representation of treason, racism, and losing. What else has that flag ever stood for?
Click to expand...

Man feel this way about the stars and stripes.

What else has it stood for? Valiant rebellion against terrible odds.
 
#238
#238
Orange Bison said:
In your opinion. Some historians find fault with it many don't. In no way does Sajer promote himself in the book or seek the spotlight. Quite the opposite. Which leads one to believe he wrote it as honestly as possible. But I'm sure you've been through many intense life experiences much worse to offer a better view on it. BTW- Co. Aytch has no doubters.
Click to expand...

The assclown thinks his spoonfed opinions are facts.
 
#239
#239
Vercingetorix said:
It's pretty simple. They got butchered because their home states built an economy so dependent on human cattle that they had to go to war to keep it.

You can remember the people without celebrating the cause they were sent to war for. There's a picture of my great-grandfather, a decorated Confederate solider, hanging on the wall in my living room, but you sure as hell aren't going to see a Confederate flag flying in front of my house.
Click to expand...


And every person in the state benefitted from this human cattle, right? Just like every woman believes in and has an abortion.
I really feel sorry for you. That is all I have to say about that. And GOOO GEORGIA BULLDOGS!!
 
Last edited:
#240
#240
therealUT said:
Not wealthy. I'm almost thirty. I am very well read, though; I couple that with some pretty intense life experiences to form my opinions.

If you want to claim I am an ass, go for it. Wouldn't be the first time someone has made the claim. I am not a tool though; I definitely walked too many hours at USMA to be considered one.
Click to expand...

And don't forget humble...
Look up the word pompous and look in the mirror.

And I didn't expect you to actually answer the questions, the fact you did and shared some insignificant details about your life hints at the narcissism dwelling within.
 
Last edited:
#241
#241
Ok I got a question? I'm a big history buff but somethings I don't know. Some of y'all are highly educated, I just have a high school education. So, What were some of the states rights that the south were fighting for? I know that they wanted to become their own nation but what are some other rights?
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#242
#242
gasguy98 said:
Man feel this way about the stars and stripes.

What else has it stood for? Valiant rebellion against terrible odds.
Click to expand...
1. Pretty sure we won the American Revolution
2. Pretty sure we live in the United States. Don't know anyone who is a current member of the CSA.
 
#243
#243
Coach Grizz said:
Ok I got a question? I'm a big history buff but somethings I don't know. Some of y'all are highly educated, I just have a high school education. So, What were some of the states rights that the south were fighting for? I know that they wanted to become their own nation but what are some other rights?
Posted via VolNation Mobile
Click to expand...

It's sort of a catch-all, more than an actual list of rights.

Basically, in the decades leading up to the war there were heated debates about various tariffs on trade that were put in place that greatly benefited the North, but hurt the South economically. Because the North had a majority population (and more states) by a small margin, they usually got their way. Of course, if slaves were counted fully, the South would gain a substantial amount of population. As it eventually was, slaves didn't vote but still counted as 3/5's of a person for representation figures purposes. In terms of actual voters, the North dwarfed the South. But that's aside the point.

What it came down to was the Southern states wanted more state sovereignty to control what sort of tariffs were enforced within their sphere, as well as secure their economic way of life through slavery which was being threatened by abolitionist policies in regards to new states. They also viewed these tariffs and the like as a breach of contract in regards to the Constitution.
 
#244
#244
Coach Grizz said:
Ok I got a question? I'm a big history buff but somethings I don't know. Some of y'all are highly educated, I just have a high school education. So, What were some of the states rights that the south were fighting for? I know that they wanted to become their own nation but what are some other rights?
Posted via VolNation Mobile
Click to expand...

Here is a good read of the Confederate Constitution based upon elisions and additions from the US Constitution.

Confederate Constitutuion
 
#246
#246
gasguy98 said:
And don't forget humble...
Look up the word pompous and look in the mirror.

And I didn't expect you to actually answer the questions, the fact you did and shared some insignificant details about your life hints at the narcissism dwelling within.
Click to expand...

You asked a question; I answered.

I asked you questions re: 9/12/01, and you blissfully ignored them.

You don't want me answering your questions, don't ask them; if you ask, I have no problem answering them.
 
#249
#249
Orange Bison said:
In your opinion. Some historians find fault with it many don't. In no way does Sajer promote himself in the book or seek the spotlight. Quite the opposite. Which leads one to believe he wrote it as honestly as possible. But I'm sure you've been through many intense life experiences much worse to offer a better view on it. BTW- Co. Aytch has no doubters.
Click to expand...

I've never read Co. Aytch.

You are correct, it the account is not self-aggrandizing. I read it and enjoyed it. After I had read it, when I was posting a review to Amazon, I saw that someone had questioned the authenticity. The thing that stuck out most to me was the discrepancy regarding the uniform; that made me take a closer look at the rest and compare his combat memoir to other combat memoirs I had read. At the time I read the book, I had not yet been in combat, ergo I did not fully understand the feelings associated. Having been through combat, I find some of his experiences and reactions hard to believe. Also, having served in the military, I cannot imagine that I would ever unwittingly or confusedly write that my Ranger tab did not go on my left shoulder and my combat patch does not go on my right shoulder. Attention to detail is absolutely paramount in Infantry units and I cannot see the German Wehrmacht being anything other than more obsessed with rigid detail than the US military.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top