The death of a school's tradition?

#177
#177
NickZ4UT said:
Also I see a lot of people comparing the Swastika to the Confederate flag. Here's a few things....
-The Nazis killed millions and were generally pretty evil.
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Millions of African-American slaves were killed. Slave-owners and overseers were "generally pretty evil".
NickZ4UT said:
-The Swastika is extremely commonplace in southeast Asia as it is, in it's origin, a good luck charm from the region (I have a friend teaching in S. Korea at the moment and he was surprised by it.)

My point is, context. I don't find the swastika offensive if say, a Buddhist is baring one, because it's a religious symbol.
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There are fundamental differences between the Nazi Swastika and Hindu Swastikas (angle, dots). There is no difference between the Confederate Battle Flag of the 1860s and those that are toted around today.

NickZ4UT said:
I also don't find the Confederate flag to be offensive either if it's being displayed as a form of historical observation i.e. re-enactment or anniversary.
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Is every Saturday in the fall an anniversary?
 
#178
#178
Lawrence Wright said:
I don't know about killing millions, but Klansmen proudly carrying the Confederate flag in the Jim Crow south while lynching innocent African-Americans could also be seen many as equally evil.
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Dead-on. After the Civil War, many Americans were essentially doing the same thing to African Americans that the Nazis were to the Jews. Granted, we weren't rounding up African Americans and gasing them. When the Edmund Pettus Bridge incident happened, The Nuremburg Trials was being shown on ABC, at least I think it was ABC. The movie was interrupted to show the horrible incident that took place in Selma earlier in the day. That's probably when people started to associate the plight of the African Americans with the plight of the Jews.
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#179
#179
tvolsfan said:
Do you really think there is a Civil War without slavery?
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No, there's not, but in due deference the South WAS getting plenty upset with the federal government because of other issues. The nullification crisis in the 1830s almost started a Civil War.
 
#184
#184
Lawrence Wright said:
I don't know about killing millions, but Klansmen proudly carrying the Confederate flag in the Jim Crow south while lynching innocent African-Americans could also be seen many as equally evil.
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Which is why if you read my addendum, I stated that the Confederate flag is offensive to a lot of people.
 
#185
#185
therealUT said:
Millions of African-American slaves were killed. Slave-owners and overseers were "generally pretty evil".


There are fundamental differences between the Nazi Swastika and Hindu Swastikas (angle, dots). There is no difference between the Confederate Battle Flag of the 1860s and those that are toted around today.



Is every Saturday in the fall an anniversary?
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You seem to be under the impression that I am defending the Confederate flag. I'm not. You also seem to think I'm defending the swastika. Again, I am not. Most people don't realize there is a difference between the Nazi symbol and the symbol commonly seen in S.E. Asia. It's all about context. The Confederate flag isn't offensive if it is being displayed during a re-enactment and yes 30,000 people waving it around during a football game is really offensive, however if you choose to observe the end of the Civil war by displaying the flag I have no problem with that. You see? Context.
 
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#187
#187
hmanvolfan said:
This is a joke for the purposes of making a point of some sort, right?
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"Our proud Southern heritage: Not as bad as the Nazis!"

iStock_000003827645XSmall1.jpg
 
#190
#190
NickZ4UT said:
I appreciate you completely ignoring the source article.

Try again.
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Your "source article" is an opinion piece which just makes the completely uncontroversial argument that there were some northern business interests which were financially entangled with the slave economy of the south. Big deal. General Motors and Ford were heavily financially entangled with pre-war Nazi Germany, too; does that mean anything significant with regard to the US's motives for going to war with Germany?
 
#191
#191
What we need here is one of those contraptions like the guys in Men in Black used to block out people's memories. Just have the entire population of the South look into the light and revise history however one sees fit. The Civil War happened. Changing the nickname or mascot of a school doesn't make it go away. If people wish to go to Ole Miss, go. If not stay away.

And I do think that the New York Yankees should change their name.:rolleyes:
 
#194
#194
tvolsfan said:
I'm just glad Volunteers isn't a Civil War name.
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If you put two and two together, you can see that SportsbyBrooks likely intended to use the UT Volunteers in an article along the same vein and who knows how far political correctness would have taken things? Remember he is a UGA grad and is not as well-intentioned as some may think.
 
#195
#195
Despite this expansive wording, the Emancipation Proclamation was limited in many ways. It applied only to states that had seceded from the Union, leaving slavery untouched in the loyal border states. It also expressly exempted parts of the Confederacy that had already come under Northern control. Most important, the freedom it promised depended upon Union military victory.

"Although the Emancipation Proclamation did not end slavery in the nation, it captured the hearts and imagination of millions of Americans and fundamentally transformed the character of the war. After January 1, 1863, every advance of federal troops expanded the domain of freedom. Moreover, the Proclamation announced the acceptance of black men into the Union Army and Navy, enabling the liberated to become liberators"

"From the first days of the Civil War, slaves had acted to secure their own liberty. The Emancipation Proclamation confirmed their insistence that the war for the Union must become a war for freedom. It added moral force to the Union cause and strengthened the Union both militarily and politically."

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/featured_documents/emancipation_proclamation/
 
#196
#196
Tux said:
If you put two and two together, you can see that SportsbyBrooks likely intended to use the UT Volunteers in an article along the same vein and who knows how far political correctness would have taken things? Remember he is a UGA grad and is not as well-intentioned as some may think.
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That's the thing. If someone makes a claim about the name 'Volunteers,' it could be easily refuted. It's harder to do the same with Rebels with all the other Confederacy stuff they've had going on.
 
#197
#197
Lawrence Wright said:
The Confederate flag is no less evil than the Nazi symbol, depending on your perspective.
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I disagree with this, and I'm usually the one saying racism, while not quite dead, is overblown by the media and I think the race card is pulled out way to often. That being said, I bet there are more racists in the US/South than actual anti-semites in Germany, so I guess that would be one argument for the quoted statement.
 
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#199
#199
Bringing it back to this decade is it really worth possibly losing out on recruits that go on to become AA's at other schools just so you can wave some flag and sing some stupis a$$ song during a game it sure as hell is not worth it to me maybe it's just that pro union east Tennessee side in me.:)
 
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