The death of a school's tradition?

#276
#276
tvolsfan said:
Saying that the Confederate soldiers were choosing to commit treason doesn't really make it look better.
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I'm giving a reason why there would be Confederate flags waving around postwar. They chose to fight for their cause.

Most German soldiers didn't. Way to completely miss the point, chief.
 
#278
#278
When I think of bears, I think of Russia. I will now think of Ole Miss as Russia.
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#279
#279
I always have found it funny that Brainerd High School changed their mascot from the Rebels to the Panthers.
 
#281
#281
Lawrence Wright said:
Your age has a lot to do with your perspective.

I think the consensus here is the mascot/nickname is fine.

It's the band playing the Confederate hymn and the rebel flags that's being scrutinized.
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Playing Dixie don't bother me, they do what they do. When they play it, ain't nobody putting their hands on me tring to harm me so F it.
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#282
#282
So what I've read in some of y'alls post is that especially one comment from U. S. Grant, that neither side really gave a damn about the black mans fate... That's the way it looks to me. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Let's go out on a limb and say if the the south would had won.... Would slavery had remained? Yes I know that NOT all white southerners owned slaves, but they really didn't care about them either? If the south was separate today, would the south still practice Jim Crow laws?
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#283
#283
Coach Grizz said:
So what I've read in some of y'alls post is that especially one comment from U. S. Grant, that neither side really gave a damn about the black mans fate... That's the way it looks to me. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Let's go out on a limb and say if the the south would had won.... Would slavery had remained? Yes I know that NOT all white southerners owned slaves, but they really didn't care about them either? If the south was separate today, would the south still practice Jim Crow laws?
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I would say that both the North and the South were both filled with many racists. Northern laborers did not want slavery because that would put them out of a job.

If the South had won, we, most likely everyone on this board, would be British Subjects today.
 
#284
#284
therealUT said:
I would say that both the North and the South were both filled with many racists. Northern laborers did not want slavery because that would put them out of a job.

If the South had won, we, most likely everyone on this board, would be British Subjects today.
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Well you kinda danced around my question but ok lol. Why would they be under British rule if they would had won when they didn't want to be under American rule?
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#285
#285
Coach Grizz said:
Well you kinda danced around my question but ok lol. Why would they be under British rule if they would had won when they didn't want to be under American rule?
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Had the South won, there is not doubt in my mind that the British would have made a play to get the continent back.

Strategically, IMO, it would have been the sensible thing for the British to do.
 
#286
#286
therealUT said:
Had the South won, there is not doubt in my mind that the British would have made a play to get the continent back.

Strategically, IMO, it would have been the sensible thing for the British to do.
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That makes sence.
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#289
#289
therealUT said:
Had the South won, there is not doubt in my mind that the British would have made a play to get the continent back.

Strategically, IMO, it would have been the sensible thing for the British to do.
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Not too sure I can agree with this. The Brits would have encountered the same problems as they had the first two go arounds, not to mention a battle tested/standing CSA army. The Union Navy probably wouldn't like the idea of the Brits getting a foothold to their backdoor also.
 
#290
#290
Coach Grizz said:
So what I've read in some of y'alls post is that especially one comment from U. S. Grant, that neither side really gave a damn about the black mans fate... That's the way it looks to me. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Let's go out on a limb and say if the the south would had won.... Would slavery had remained? Yes I know that NOT all white southerners owned slaves, but they really didn't care about them either? If the south was separate today, would the south still practice Jim Crow laws?
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Click to expand...

Generally, no one cared terribly for the black man. There were a few that despised slavery, but that wasn't necessarily out of love for the black man either.

If the South wins, slavery remains. Had the South never rebelled, slavery would have likely persisted in those original slave states for much, much longer, but overall declined in popularity and scope over time.

I don't think the average poor Southern farmer thought much more or less of black people than the average poor northern factory worker, to be honest. That would be a simplification of things.

If you are looking for a champion of the black man in the ranks of the white establishment on either side of the war, you aren't really going to find one. It was every day people, certain religious groups (credit where it is due) and upper-middle class northerners that were really for equality and freedom for all people, including black people. Racism was prevalent in both regions. There is a reason why equality wasn't actually achieved in this country until 100 years later.

I don't know that the Jim Crow laws would have come up at all or persisted in the South, as I think a big part of them was resentment of control over black people being forcibly wrestled away by the North. If that doesn't happen, the South may have been more graceful in their treatment of race, if and when slavery ended.

A lot of speculation in that last part, of course.
 
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#291
#291
BUBear said:
Not too sure I can agree with this. The Brits would have encountered the same problems as they had the first two go arounds, not to mention a battle tested/standing CSA army. The Union Navy probably wouldn't like the idea of the Brits getting a foothold to their backdoor also.
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If the Brits felt the CSA had a good shot at beating the Union, they would have gained a foothold by providing troops and their Navy during the struggle. Again, my opinion.
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#292
#292
therealUT said:
If the Brits felt the CSA had a good shot at beating the Union, they would have gained a foothold by providing troops and their Navy during the struggle. Again, my opinion.
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One shared by many historians.
 
#293
#293
therealUT said:
If the Brits felt the CSA had a good shot at beating the Union, they would have gained a foothold by providing troops and their Navy during the struggle. Again, my opinion.
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I know, not trying to pick a fight here but the Brits had a much stronger foothold in 1776 but the treasury ran out. At the end of the day it's all speculation and conjecture now.
 
#294
#294
BUBear said:
I know, not trying to pick a fight here but the Brits had a much stronger foothold in 1776 but the treasury ran out. At the end of the day it's all speculation and conjecture now.
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The Brits would have done it through the proxy of the CSA. It would have been totally different than in 1776.
 
#295
#295
IPorange said:
The Brits would have done it through the proxy of the CSA. It would have been totally different than in 1776.
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This is true but at the same time the Union would have viewed the Brits as an invading army and all Northerners would have rallied to the cause rather than having large segments of the population whom were apathetic to the war.
 
#296
#296
volunteerlane said:
I think this is a joke. I see absolutely no issue with "Ole Miss", "Rebels", or "Col Reb" for that matter. That is the schools tradition. I'm 24 and have been watching SEC football for a while and can say slavery has never popped in my head when Ole Miss was mentioned.
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It is a pathetic sign of the times.
Don't be surprised if they come for us one day too.
 
#297
#297
tvolsfan said:
Who's talking about the sin of the state they were born in? I'm pretty sure we're talking about the whole taking up arms against their own country issue.
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Originally Posted by Vercingetorix
"It's pretty simple. They got butchered because their home states built an economy so dependent on human cattle that they had to go to war to keep it."

That is who. Read the post before chiming in.
 
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#298
#298
tvolsfan said:
Saying that the Confederate soldiers were choosing to commit treason doesn't really make it look better.
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Is the treason thing all you got?
When half of the country wants to peacefully seperate from a union it is not treason. As I wrote, no one was tried for treason, even Jeff Davis.

You need to find another argument, this one has no traction.
 
#299
#299
IPorange said:
Generally, no one cared terribly for the black man. There were a few that despised slavery, but that wasn't necessarily out of love for the black man either.

If the South wins, slavery remains. Had the South never rebelled, slavery would have likely persisted in those original slave states for much, much longer, but overall declined in popularity and scope over time.

I don't think the average poor Southern farmer thought much more or less of black people than the average poor northern factory worker, to be honest. That would be a simplification of things.

If you are looking for a champion of the black man in the ranks of the white establishment on either side of the war, you aren't really going to find one. It was every day people, certain religious groups (credit where it is due) and upper-middle class northerners that were really for equality and freedom for all people, including black people. Racism was prevalent in both regions. There is a reason why equality wasn't actually achieved in this country until 100 years later.

I don't know that the Jim Crow laws would have come up at all or persisted in the South, as I think a big part of them was resentment of control over black people being forcibly wrestled away by the North. If that doesn't happen, the South may have been more graceful in their treatment of race, if and when slavery ended.

A lot of speculation in that last part, of course.
Click to expand...

Cudos, a good post (better late than never).
 
#300
#300
Coach Grizz said:
I probably spelled it wrong but it's just a message board lol. But thanks my friend
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Don't feel too bad, one guy on here tried to deletitimize my arguments because I inadvertantly and in haste put a "p" in Sumter.

When all else fails, attack the messenger...
 
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