The eternal QB debate (merged)

#151
#151
Lucas Taylor was a product of Cut's genius "dink and dunk" offense. Cut was trying to stop the bleeding, not build a program... so he took an OL that couldn't block and a bunch of #2 WR's and ran a quick pass/no huddle O.

I loved Lucas but where is he now? He isn't where marquee receivers go when their college careers are over.

And I'm STILL not saying Crompton is playing well or is a good QB. I'm simply saying that he isn't the only problem and that Kiffin is working a plan for the future of the Vol program that may include some lumps in the here and now.
 
#152
#152
I really can't believe that u all really feel the need to critique him in the answer he gives. What ever I am sick and tired of hearing the ut fans that think they no more than anyone about football and spend there time trying to tear down JC more than he already is. It is sad that u all feel that this is entertaining. I can only imagine how good this young man would be if vol nation would stand behind him with support rather than behind a computer screen and throw stones. I would love to see ut fans have signs made that say what u got to loose! Go get em crompton. I think that is what a true fan base would do not ridicule a 22 year old kid to the point he is rattled more at home than on the road.
 
#153
#153
OK. Let me put on my other hat.

Jon came to UT to play QB knowing that he'd be under the magnifying glass for 4 or 5 years. I think we should be fair. I think we shouldn't make it personal. To use your word, we definitely shouldn't ridicule a 22 year old kid who is trying his heart out.

However, he took the job knowing the negatives. He deserves to be criticized when he plays poorly just like he got praised after WKU.

He stank it up against UCLA. Between him, Jones, Moore, and the OL... you have about 99% of the responsibility for the loss.

Considering the competition, he actually played a little better against UF except for that one play... that one incredibly incompetent play... a play that there aren't words (family friendly ones anyway) to describe. I've been watching football for a very long time and that throw away was one of the worst plays I've ever seen. Not because you never throw the ball away but because of all the thing he failed to do that a competent QB does as second nature. If I had been in CLK's shoes... I might well have pulled him then and told him to go put his street clothes on... I consider that play THAT BAD.

I don't think that he's a failure at life if he fails at playing QB for UT... in fact, his never quit attitude is impressive. But when there are objective things about his performance that deserve criticism... then he should bear them.
 
#154
#154
sjt18 said:
Lucas Taylor was a product of Cut's genius "dink and dunk" offense. Cut was trying to stop the bleeding, not build a program... so he took an OL that couldn't block and a bunch of #2 WR's and ran a quick pass/no huddle O.

I loved Lucas but where is he now? He isn't where marquee receivers go when their college careers are over.
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Lucas got a good look from Denver but didn't make the team not unlike other UT receivers that were quite good in college - Swain, Smith, and Copeland come to mind. Lucas was very good (solid hands, a 4.3 forty, and got signed despite only 300yds his senior year), just not quite good enough.

I bet if you ran a regression of receivers that went from 1,000 yards as JRs to 3,000 yards as SRs (adjusted for injury), that there would be a strong correlation of poor QB play to the decline in yards. JMO.
 
#155
#155
Why do the Cromptonites assume Stephens will not be better. Crompton has had way more tme under center and Stephens had a fractured wrist in the spring. I think Nick would be better if he just had an opportunity in something other than the Clawfense.
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#156
#156
Taylor's supposed 40 times have ranged anywhere from 4.3 to over 4.6. He certainly never looked like a 4.3 guy.... Regardless, he wasn't a marquee receiver and wouldn't have been anywhere else.

OTOH, all 4 of the guys you mentioned were known for running good routes consistently.

Swain and Smith were nothing more than #2 WR's who benefited directly from Meachem being a bigtime, marquee player.
 
#157
#157
Volsfan4243 said:
Why do the Cromptonites assume Stephens will not be better. Crompton has had way more tme under center and had a fractured wrist in the spring. I think he would be better if he jut had an opportunity in something other than the Clawfense.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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Why do the Crompton haters assume that anyone who defends JC from unfair criticism or trusts the judgment of CLK has made any assumption whatsoever about what Stephens might or might not do?

I'm curious about it. At the same time, I trust that CLK knows what he's trying to accomplish and knows both players better than guys like YOU.

Your not satisfied. I'm not satisfied. The difference is that you ASSUME that things will get better and won't get worse if a change is made. I'm trusting this professional coaching staff to know if and when a change should be made. I'm making absolutely NO assumptions other than CLK will do his job in rebuilding the program... or that he'll go the way of Fulmer before him.
 
#158
#158
sjt18 said:
Considering the competition, he actually played a little better against UF except for that one play... that one incredibly incompetent play... a play that there aren't words (family friendly ones anyway) to describe. I've been watching football for a very long time and that throw away was one of the worst plays I've ever seen. Not because you never throw the ball away but because of all the thing he failed to do that a competent QB does as second nature. If I had been in CLK's shoes... I might well have pulled him then and told him to go put his street clothes on... I consider that play THAT BAD.
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How did THAT play compare to Ainge's play against LSU in his own inzone in your opinion? I almost died when Ainge threw that crazy pass that evening! The worst decision I have ever seen a TN QB make. From that day forward I never really liked Ainge and couldn't wait until he was gone. He seemed like a totally different QB that season. As a freshman he was great at times.
Now things have changed. Ainge at times was a good QB and I could only imagine having him starting with the current team. Can't believe I just said that either!
 
#159
#159
We all know it. It's been apparent for a while now. Last year's staff finally figured it out. This year's may need a little more time to see it because they haven't been around him very long yet. Crompton must be very good in practice. But, he doesn't perform well in games. I don't know more than our coaches. I couldn't even coach a single positive play in the SEC. But, this QB has shown he can't play on game day. Stephens didn't do well last season either but I am positive he hasn't gotten the attention by any staff that Crompton has. If he gets it and is assured the starting job he may improve a little (or not). Crompton can't improve and he only has a few games left in his career.
No I don't like to attack college players. They make me angry and I say things but in the end they gave their all (most of them). Other than his play, I really don't like his take no blame attitude. That bugs the crap out of me. If he would just come out and say I played horrible and will try my best this week in practice to get better it might change my attitude towards him. Most QBs take responsibility for losses even when they don't play horrible.
We have many weaknesses on O. Crompton is the biggest one currently.
 
#160
#160
Volsfan4243 said:
Why do the Cromptonites assume Stephens will not be better. Crompton has had way more tme under center and Stephens had a fractured wrist in the spring. I think Nick would be better if he just had an opportunity in something other than the Clawfense.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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Crompton was the starter pre-injury, and he would remain the starter after injury.
No matter what anyone says, that's the way it played out. Stephens was never projected as the starter by anyone other than VN posters.
 
#161
#161
crusse10 said:
Crompton was the starter pre-injury, and he would remain the starter after injury.
No matter what anyone says, that's the way it played out. Stephens was never projected as the starter by anyone other than VN posters.
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But just before the season opener Kiffin said the QB job was still wide open so he had doubts too at that time.
 
#163
#163
Pretty close comparison though Ainge's play resulted in points for the other team and looked really bad. Ainge's mistake was stupid but there was little fear involved. He was already getting smoked and made it worse by trying to heave it incomplete or to someone.

That throw away potentially says alot of things about JC and none of them good.
- It says that he doesn't even have to be under real pressure to panic.
- It says that fear takes control of him at least sometimes
- It says that he doesn't have the natural QB instincts to look for a WR breaking back to him
- It says that whatever made him run over that AA LSU DB a couple of years ago... might be gone.
- It says he neither trusts himself or his teammates
- It says he's thinking too much about risks rather than knowing what to do second nature
- I would have never have thought it since he's always seemed to be a tough guy but it suggests he was afraid of getting hit if he ran
- He didn't keep his eyes up when he stepped through
- I mean in so many ways that play SCREAMED I don't have the right mentality to be a QB.

Maybe he'll recover and prove all these things just to be aberrations... but I'm not so hopeful as I was after WKU. But as I watched Garcia drop back then step through a gap last night... I couldn't help but think about that throw away. Garcia was playing with bad ribs yet he kept looking downfield for a play... not because he decided to but because that was his instinct.

Crompton probably has the physical tools to be one of the best QB's in the country. But there is something missing... or some disconnect in his head.

I hope CLK can fix it. Lord knows that JC deserves to have something good come of his career... I'm just not all that optimistic any more.

Again, nothing personal... just the facts... ma'am... just the facts.
 
#164
#164
sjt18 said:
FTR, I'm not the one hiding behind a keyboard throwing stones at a 22 year old kid who's putting his heart, soul, and body into something and failing at it.
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Smokey1210 said:
I think that is what a true fan base would do not ridicule a 22 year old kid to the point he is rattled more at home than on the road.
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At what point does a 22 year old college graduate in his fifth year of football eligibility become a man accountable for his actions and stop being referred to as a kid?
 
#166
#166
Here's what I think is delusional:

Some of you "fans" whine incessantly about this like it's magically going to change something. The very presence of your displeasure on the screen is going to set in motion every ounce of available karmic energy to get you what you want. You know best anyway, that's why you're already the leading coach at some prestigious institution or NFL franchise. Real men of Genius need to write a commercial just for you.

I'd love to see Crompton do better or see Nick get a chance but I'm not the coach. The guy that is happens to have performed well enough for me to think he's making the best choice from his available options. I can't second guess him because I have no pedigree or real experience coaching football. Just like 99% of the people who post here. Contrary to popular opinion, Madden doesn't count.

One more thing: One of our posters in this thread isn't smart enough to defend his ideas so now he wants to beat somebody up. Gradulations, you just fit the first requirement to become a Gator fan......anytime......anywhere
 
#167
#167
UT IE 95 said:
At what point does a 22 year old college graduate in his fifth year of football eligibility become a man accountable for his actions and stop being referred to as a kid?
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All 22 year olds are kids to me... and that has nothing to do with holding him accountable for his actions.
 
#168
#168
I think very few of the people griping about Crompton truly believe Stephens is any better. I think very few griping about Crompton are criticizing Kiffin for his quarterbacking decisions. I think most people are just venting thier frustrations out of pure disbelief as to how badly Crompton has and is performing, even though little can be done about it, by anybody. Just human nature. Crompton is visibly the weak link, the difference between being good and being mediocre.
 
#171
#171
sjt18 said:
Taylor's supposed 40 times have ranged anywhere from 4.3 to over 4.6. He certainly never looked like a 4.3 guy.... Regardless, he wasn't a marquee receiver and wouldn't have been anywhere else.
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I'm afraid that is not exactly true. I quoted times from the NFL combine. Lucas' best time was 4.26 (slowest was 4.47), electronically timed. He benched 14 reps, a stark improvement over the 2 reps he could do as a freshman. Lucas was a very underrated WR and a team player.

My main point which seems to be overlooked is that Taylor was an AllSEC 1,000 yard receiver for Angie but became a 300 yard nobody for Crompton. Am I wrong to assume Crompton had something to do with this?

No one truly knows what we have at WR. I tend to believe that Jones, Warren, Moore, and Hancock are actually above average SEC WRs. Nothing amazing, but still above average.

What position does everyone conclude is below average? ... That is where we should be focusing.
 
#172
#172
His comment that we are really moving the ball and have confidence in our kicker really says it all about Crompton. It is so frustrating that we could be a 10-2 or 9-3 team with just an adequate quarterback.
 
#173
#173
37620VOL said:
I'm afraid that is not exactly true. I quoted times from the NFL combine. Lucas' best time was 4.26 (slowest was 4.47), electronically timed. He benched 14 reps, a stark improvement over the 2 reps he could do as a freshman. Lucas was a very underrated WR and a team player.

My main point which seems to be overlooked is that Taylor was an AllSEC 1,000 yard receiver for Angie but became a 300 yard nobody for Crompton. Am I wrong to assume Crompton had something to do with this?

No one truly knows what we have at WR. I tend to believe that Jones, Warren, Moore, and Hancock are actually above average SEC WRs. Nothing amazing, but still above average.

What position does everyone conclude is below average? ... That is where we should be focusing.
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I would say Jones is an above-average athlete in the SEC. It's tough to say that a player who never took a snap at WR before being at UT is now above the average kid who played wideout his whole life, and is now playing on an SEC roster.

Edit:
Especially when said receiver is notorious for running bad routes.
 
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#174
#174
37620VOL said:
My main point which seems to be overlooked is that Taylor was an AllSEC 1,000 yard receiver for Angie but became a 300 yard nobody for Crompton. Am I wrong to assume Crompton had something to do with this?
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Yeah. What's with that Taylor kid? The second that Crompton got on the field he did nothing but run incorrect routes, fail to get any separation and watch the football sail over his head into the stands or bounce ten yards in front of him. What other possible explanation is there? Lord knows it couldn't have resulted from a crappy quarterback.
 
#175
#175
37620VOL said:
My main point which seems to be overlooked is that Taylor was an AllSEC 1,000 yard receiver for Angie but became a 300 yard nobody for Crompton. Am I wrong to assume Crompton had something to do with this?
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IMO, that isn't a bad assumption. Again... ad nauseum... I'm not claiming Crompton has played well. Part of it of course was the system Clawson tried to install and the eventual breakdown resulting from the players not buying in or getting it. But Crompton most certainly was part of it.

No one truly knows what we have at WR. I tend to believe that Jones, Warren, Moore, and Hancock are actually above average SEC WRs. Nothing amazing, but still above average.
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I disagree that you can categorize all those guys as above avg SEC receivers. None of them have really proven it on the field. That's why I said the Vols have a bunch of #2 guys. Guys that would be very productive opposite a Meachem, Stallworth, or Pickens but not guys that other teams scheme for.

What position does everyone conclude is below average? ... That is where we should be focusing.
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The receivers are below avg as a group. None of them are necessarily below avg on their own but you need that marquee guy that makes the rest better. Swain and Smith come nowhere near their production without Meachem. If you actually have two marquee type players then you can have something really special.

The OL isn't terrible but it is below avg because it is paper thin. They only have 6 or maybe 7 guys they're willing to run out there against a quality opponent.
 
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