The Foreign Trade Thread

#628
#628
1972 Grad said:
It's a negotiating tactic to stop the theft of intellectual property, etc. . Our economy is strong right now, and it's the time to do it.
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Imagine you're an American business that imports goods from China and you have no idea if the stuff you buy is suddenly going to cost 15% or 25% more on Friday.

Great negotiating tactic, eh?
 
#629
#629
Velo Vol said:
Imagine you're an American business that imports goods from China and you have no idea if the stuff you buy is suddenly going to cost 15% or 25% more on Friday.

Great negotiating tactic, eh?
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It's temporary, and for the greater good in the long run. The market will be able to survive.
 
#630
#630
1972 Grad said:
It's a negotiating tactic to stop the theft of intellectual property, etc. . Our economy is strong right now, and it's the time to do it.
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This is the only card Trump supporters have in this conversation, so you gotta keep playing it, but in order for this card to be valid, you gotta believe a lot of BS.
  • Can we trust the idiots in government to come up with an agreement that improves IP protection in ways that benefit our country as a whole? The idea that we can come up with a policy that creates a big net benefit for American interests is very wishful thinking.
  • Can we trust China to abide by the agreement? No. Even if they perfectly abide while Trump is in office, that means we only get 2-6 years of benefit from the policy.
  • The enforcement mechanism shoots us in the foot, so if they do not abide (which they likely won't), we have to shoot ourselves in the foot more.
How could this trade war possibly result in a more prosperous America? It's not likely.
 
#631
#631
n_huffhines said:
This is the only card Trump supporters have in this conversation, so you gotta keep playing it, but in order for this card to be valid, you gotta believe a lot of BS.
  • Can we trust the idiots in government to come up with an agreement that improves IP protection in ways that benefit our country as a whole? The idea that we can come up with a policy that creates a big net benefit for American interests is very wishful thinking.
  • Can we trust China to abide by the agreement? No. Even if they perfectly abide while Trump is in office, that means we only get 2-6 years of benefit from the policy.
  • The enforcement mechanism shoots us in the foot, so if they do not abide (which they likely won't), we have to shoot ourselves in the foot more.
How could this trade war possibly result in a more prosperous America? It's not likely.
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So, just bend over and let China be China?
 
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#632
#632
n_huffhines said:
This is the only card Trump supporters have in this conversation, so you gotta keep playing it, but in order for this card to be valid, you gotta believe a lot of BS.
  • Can we trust the idiots in government to come up with an agreement that improves IP protection in ways that benefit our country as a whole? The idea that we can come up with a policy that creates a big net benefit for American interests is very wishful thinking.
  • Can we trust China to abide by the agreement? No. Even if they perfectly abide while Trump is in office, that means we only get 2-6 years of benefit from the policy.
  • The enforcement mechanism shoots us in the foot, so if they do not abide (which they likely won't), we have to shoot ourselves in the foot more.
How could this trade war possibly result in a more prosperous America? It's not likely.
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This post is like the old movie war games, the only way to win the game is not play. So what you're saying is 1. Our government is inept so don't try and protect our IP. 2. China will only honor the agreement while Trump is in office and whoever succeeds won't have any balls. 3. We can't enforce it so let's just shoot ourselves in the foot and Eff it up for trying.
You really made one of the stupidest posts I've ever read from you. People like you are how we go to where we are today, no spine, no will, no fortitude, just roll over and submit.
 
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#633
#633
1972 Grad said:
So, just bend over and let China be China?
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If you're that insecure about it, you can look at it that way. If you invented a cool awning for your back yard and your neighbor copied your idea without compensating you, would you feel like he was butt ****ing you?

It's not about what China is doing, it's about what we're doing to ourselves. I'd rather leave China alone to be a protectionist IP stealer than be a central planner and restrict freedom at home. Why be the communists when we can beat the communists?
 
#634
#634
n_huffhines said:
If you're that insecure about it, you can look at it that way. If you invented a cool awning for your back yard and your neighbor copied your idea without compensating you, would you feel like he was butt ****ing you?

It's not about what China is doing, it's about what we're doing to ourselves. I'd rather leave China alone to be a protectionist IP stealer than be a central planner and restrict freedom at home. Why be the communists when we can beat the communists?
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LMAO let’s just get rid of the patent office then. Both US and international 😂
 
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#636
#636
n_huffhines said:
Non sequitur
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Incorrect. That is literally what you stated. To ignore IP protections. I’d love to be a fly on the wall when you propose that bold strategy to any tech company CEO.

“Ignore those IP stealing Chinese. Just go invent more cool stuff and let them rip your knowledge and investment off it’s not worth risking a protectionist approach to the markets you compete in!”

They would have to surgically remove that CEO’s patent leather Italian shoe from your ass.
 
#637
#637
NorthDallas40 said:
Incorrect. That is literally what you stated. To ignore IP protections. I’d love to be a fly on the wall when you propose that bold strategy to any tech company CEO.

“Ignore those IP stealing Chinese. Just go invent more cool stuff and let them rip your knowledge and investment off it’s not worth risking a protectionist approach to the markets you compete in!”

They would have to surgically remove that CEO’s patent leather Italian shoe from your ass.
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All of this is under the context of protectionism. Just because protectionism is worse than IP theft doesn't mean we should give up on all IP protection, domestic or international. That's a completely non-sequitur conclusion. Plenty of countries follow international IP law simply because they want reciprocation. Domestic enforcement isn't even in the same ballpark, so not sure why you would even mention that, but hey, people that deflect don't usually have anything smarter to say.
 
#638
#638
n_huffhines said:
All of this is under the context of protectionism. Just because protectionism is worse than IP theft doesn't mean we should give up on all IP protection, domestic or international. That's a completely non-sequitur conclusion.
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It isn’t a non sequitor. Your argument is ill formed. Patents, especially international patents, are by their very nature protectionist. Thus you are against them. And the example you gave illustrated that clearly. And I called you on it. And you’re deflecting now.
 
#640
#640
NorthDallas40 said:
It isn’t a non sequitor. Your argument is ill formed. Patents, especially international patents, are by their very nature protectionist. Thus you are against them. And the example you gave illustrated that clearly. And I called you on it. And you’re deflecting now.
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OK, Mr. Semantics. Just because trade wars are worse than IP theft doesn't mean we should give up on all IP protection.

Now that I got the verbiage perfectly right, where do you go from here?
 
#641
#641
n_huffhines said:
OK, Mr. Semantics. Just because trade wars are worse than IP theft doesn't mean we should give up on all IP protection.

Now that I got the verbiage perfectly right, where do you go from here?
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How about where you go from here and recognize Chinese threat to US companies investment in IP is a real threat and should be attacked aggressively instead of just always going “ahhhhhhh protectionism bad!” when indeed it’s a valid complaint here?
 
#642
#642
NorthDallas40 said:
How about where you go from here and recognize Chinese threat to US companies investment in IP is a real threat and should be attacked aggressively instead of just always going “ahhhhhhh protectionism bad!” when indeed it’s a valid complaint here?
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Not sure that a strawman is any better than non-sequitur deflections. What makes you think I don't think it's a threat? I called it "theft" and implied that it was bad, just not as bad as a trade war. Of course IP theft is a valid complaint for SOME Americans. That doesn't mean we should **** ALL Americans and restrict freedom in some misguided and most likely failed effort to compel the Chinese to fall in line.
 
#643
#643
n_huffhines said:
All of this is under the context of protectionism. Just because protectionism is worse than IP theft doesn't mean we should give up on all IP protection, domestic or international. That's a completely non-sequitur conclusion. Plenty of countries follow international IP law simply because they want reciprocation. Domestic enforcement isn't even in the same ballpark, so not sure why you would even mention that, but hey, people that deflect don't usually have anything smarter to say.
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There are more issues with China than IP theft.
 
#644
#644
n_huffhines said:
Not sure that a strawman is any better than non-sequitur deflections. What makes you think I don't think it's a threat? I called it "theft" and implied that it was bad, just not as bad as a trade war. Of course IP theft is a valid complaint for SOME Americans. That doesn't mean we should **** ALL Americans and restrict freedom in some misguided and most likely failed effort to compel the Chinese to fall in line.
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You’re still deflecting. If they don’t recognize our IP then we need to take actions. Trade “actions” very often show up as tariffs. Which make your head spin and you spit pea soup. You’re still dancing around your “let’s just sit back and eat it” stance because you abhor ALL protectionist ideas. Even if some have merit.
 
#645
#645
NorthDallas40 said:
You’re still deflecting. If they don’t recognize our IP then we need to take actions. Trade “actions” very often show up as tariffs. Which make your head spin and you spit pea soup. You’re still dancing around your “let’s just sit back and eat it” stance because you abhor ALL protectionist ideas. Even if some have merit.
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Stop trying to attribute motives and emotions to me and just address my arguments. Or don't. Just keep on with this nonsense.
 
#646
#646
n_huffhines said:
Stop trying to attribute motives and emotions to me and just address my arguments. Or don't. Just keep on with this nonsense.
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I have addressed your argument. Protection of our IP is a valid concern. Action in protecting that IP against an unwilling sovereign thief very easily will result in tariffs. And rightfully so. And you’re against all tariffs. Your own example on IP theft supports that observation.

And you’re wrong. Our companies should expect aggressive action in protection of their federally and internationally recognized intellectual property. If they don’t get those assurances then profits spent on innovation will fall. What’s the damn point if you know it will just get stolen. And those actions include levying tariffs against offending sovereigns like China. I couldn’t have been more clear. 🤷‍♂️
 
#647
#647
n_huffhines said:
If you're that insecure about it, you can look at it that way. If you invented a cool awning for your back yard and your neighbor copied your idea without compensating you, would you feel like he was butt ****ing you?
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If I was developing a revolutionary awning that I intended to put significant investments in to commercialize and my development was being done in secret in my own garage, yes I would pretty pissed off if my neighbor with more resources than myself and cheap labor at his disposal stole my idea and ran with it. My other neighbors that I intended to employ for my endeavor as well as the local pub where i spend all my money would probably also be pissed too.
 
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#648
#648
vols4sure said:
If I was developing a revolutionary awning that I intended to put significant investments in to commercialize and my development was being done in secret in my own garage, yes I would pretty pissed off if my neighbor with more resources than myself and cheap labor at his disposal stole my idea and ran with it. My other neighbors that I intended to employ for my endeavor as well as the local pub where i spend all my money would probably also be pissed too.
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No no no. ALL protectionism is bad. Get over your self and create a new awning to be stolen FFS. Sheesh stop being so paranoid.
 
#650
#650
vols4sure said:
If I was developing a revolutionary awning that I intended to put significant investments in to commercialize and my development was being done in secret in my own garage, yes I would pretty pissed off if my neighbor with more resources than myself and cheap labor at his disposal stole my idea and ran with it. My other neighbors that I intended to employ for my endeavor as well as the local pub where i spend all my money would probably also be pissed too.
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But would you feel like your neighbor was butt ****ing you?

Most of what China is doing is stealing ideas that they keep in China. They're not really under-cutting you in other markets. Hence my example of your neighbor stealing your awning idea for his own household use (not to compete with you).

Interestingly, Ninebot copied Segway and then bought Segway for an undisclosed amount.
 
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