The George Floyd Monument

#401
#401
1vol8 said:
Idk if you’ve ever lived in an apartment building but there are several reasons. One being a greater distance of engagement. Second, you can hear the knock on everyone’s door to evacuate them and therefore allowing even more time to prepare. Third is pedestrians, curious onlookers and the people you just evacuated. Now they’re all outside standing and watching from the patrol car barricade. Not to mention some of them being kids. I can keep going but I’m sure you understand
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I have lived in an apartment building.

I have some experience in CQB and in my experience it's best to avoid it when at all possible.
 
#404
#404
I'm legitimately curious if there are differences in firing rules in house entrance situations between police and the military.
 
#405
#405
AshG said:
I'm legitimately curious if there are differences in firing rules in house entrance situations between police and the military.
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Don't know about rules but training is night and day different.
 
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#406
#406
hog88 said:
It's 100% avoidable where no other lives are in danger.
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It no less avoidable than being one of the unlucky people that get caught in a crossfire of an active shooter. None of us have any idea what will happen by simply leaving our homes. Those cops are no different in those situations. The “goal” is to get their guy and go home without conflict. Which they stand a better chance of accomplishment with a no knock warrant of a cop killer. Same as you going to the store and back. But should a conflict arise and you’re a CCW holder you made a conscious decision to be ready to protect yourself and the innocent. They have to take all the precautions as if it WILL happen. Just as you do by strapping on that gun every single day.
 
#407
#407
1vol8 said:
It no less avoidable than being one of the unlucky people that get caught in a crossfire of an active shooter. None of us have any idea what will happen by simply leaving our homes. Those cops are no different in those situations. The “goal” is to get their guy and go home without conflict. Which they stand a better chance of accomplishment with a no knock warrant of a cop killer. Same as you going to the store and back. But should a conflict arise and you’re a CCW holder you made a conscious decision to be ready to protect yourself and the innocent. They have to take all the precautions as if it WILL happen. Just as you do by strapping on that gun every single day.
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It doesn't make a difference if your after a cop killer or drug dealer, everybody has gotta eat and eventually will come out. Yeah, they might come out guns blazing but then at least you know (as a cop) you aren't shooting an innocent.

You are killing your own argument. Your job as a cop is to catch the bad guys not to play Rambo.
 
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#409
#409
hog88 said:
It doesn't make a difference if your after a cop killer or drug dealer, everybody has gotta eat and eventually will come out. Yeah, they might come out guns blazing but then at least you know (as a cop) you aren't shooting an innocent.

You are killing your own argument. Your job as a cop is to catch the bad guys not to play Rambo.
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There’s a lot you’re not considering. Details of a situation could very greatly. “Gotta eat sometime” sounds good but you’re not considering they could have a months worth of food inside. Meanwhile the city running rampant because all your cops are surrounding an apartment building for the past 4 weeks. Not to mention it would also require 24hr shifts OR twice as many cops on the force.

But you’re avoiding the original question and I’m sure I know why. Let’s say there is no other way just to save time. You’re choices are knock or no knock and you’re the first through the door. What’s your choice? If you have a family at home, consider that because there’s no doubt you would if put in that situation.
 
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#410
#410
1vol8 said:
There’s a lot you’re not considering. Details of a situation could very greatly. “Gotta eat sometime” sounds good but you’re not considering they could have a months worth of food inside. Meanwhile the city running rampant because all your cops are surrounding an apartment building for the past 4 weeks. Not to mention it would also require 24hr shifts OR twice as many cops on the force.

But you’re avoiding the original question and I’m sure I know why. Let’s say there is no other way just to save time. You’re choices are knock or no knock and you’re the first through the door. What’s your choice? If you have a family at home, consider that because there’s no doubt you would if put in that situation.
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What if we do something novel like cut off electric and water do you still think someone is going to be holed up for weeks?
 
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#411
#411
VolStrom said:
What if we do something novel like cut off electric and water do you still think someone is going to be holed up for weeks?
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We’re talking an apartment building. By doing that I think you’d have to cut power and water to the entire building. Can it be done? Sure. But what about the remaining innocent families you just put out on the street for an undetermined amount of time? If it can be done to a single apartment through the providers? It seems possible to be effective but you’re still talking hours and even days.
 
#412
#412
1vol8 said:
There’s a lot you’re not considering. Details of a situation could very greatly. “Gotta eat sometime” sounds good but you’re not considering they could have a months worth of food inside. Meanwhile the city running rampant because all your cops are surrounding an apartment building for the past 4 weeks. Not to mention it would also require 24hr shifts OR twice as many cops on the force.

But you’re avoiding the original question and I’m sure I know why. Let’s say there is no other way just to save time. You’re choices are knock or no knock and you’re the first through the door. What’s your choice? If you have a family at home, consider that because there’s no doubt you would if put in that situation.
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I have another choice, just like I told my SIL who is a cop. You tell them to piss off. Nobody that's not endangering someone else is worth dying for and leaving my daughter a widow. The vast majority of cops have nothing better to do than sit on the hwy shooting radar so the force could spare some to watch a house. Ask yourself this, is it worth 1 innocents or cops life to catch that cop killer?

In my 20s sure I loved kicking doors and doing stupid ****, I didn't know any better and I thought it was cool. I'm older, wiser now and realize feeding my adrenaline habit isn't worth all the possible bad **** that could happen.
 
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#414
#414
hog88 said:
I have another choice, just like I told my SIL who is a cop. You tell them to piss off. Nobody that's not endangering someone else is worth dying for and leaving my daughter a widow. The vast majority of cops have nothing better to do than sit on the hwy shooting radar so the force could spare some to watch a house. Ask yourself this, is it worth 1 innocents or cops life to catch that cop killer?

In my 20s sure I loved kicking doors and doing stupid ****, I didn't know any better and I thought it was cool. I'm older, wiser now and realize feeding my adrenaline habit isn't worth all the possible bad **** that could happen.
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See? You don’t want to make that choice and that’s EXACTLY why no knock warrants are legal but rarely used.

And to answer your question, the same question applies to me as a CCW holder and/or former cop. Yes. I would lay my life down to save another and one cops life is worth the capture of a cop killer that would more than likely kill another one and/or innocent people to avoid being captured.


Also you’re back to talking houses. They’re easier. I was talking apartment buildings for a reason.
 
#415
#415
1vol8 said:
See? You don’t want to make that choice and that’s EXACTLY why no knock warrants are legal but rarely used.

And to answer your question, the same question applies to me as a CCW holder and/or former cop. Yes. I would lay my life down to save another and one cops life is worth the capture of a cop killer that would more than likely kill another one and/or innocent people to avoid being captured.


Also you’re back to talking houses. They’re easier. I was talking apartment buildings for a reason.
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In none of your scenarios is anyone's life in danger. You are trying to put yourself/other cops in danger with forcible entry when there is no immediate need.

And yes, in most apartment buildings you can cut individual unit water and electricity.
 
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#416
#416
VolStrom said:
What if we do something novel like cut off electric and water do you still think someone is going to be holed up for weeks?
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Turn off the internets and smoke em' out, they'll be begging for mercy in no time.
 
#417
#417
hog88 said:
In none of your scenarios is anyone's life in danger. You are trying to put yourself/other cops in danger with forcible entry when there is no immediate need.

And yes, in most apartment buildings you can cut individual unit water and electricity.
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I disagree. Watch the video I posted of officer Tatum on Breonna Taylor case and you’ll understand why the warrant HAD to served that day. You may be right in that particular house but you’re wrong about that with the other houses involved.
 
#418
#418
1vol8 said:
I disagree. Watch the video I posted of officer Tatum on Breonna Taylor case and you’ll understand why the warrant HAD to served that day. You may be right in that particular house but you’re wrong about that with the other houses involved.
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Who was going to die if they didn't serve the warrant that day?
 
#420
#420
Seems like 1vol has his mind made up and it's katy bar the door we're goin in guns a blazin **** everyone inside.
 
#422
#422
1vol8 said:
The opportunity to get Glover was that day. Which meant all houses involved in the warrant had to be hit.
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They couldn't have gotten him in the morning, the next day, the next week? Was he about to kill someone?
 
#423
#423
VolStrom said:
Answer the question posed. Who was going to die that day?
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He’s a known drug dealer. Which means it could’ve been anyone with a high probability of conflict. You want to let him and people like him skate until it becomes easy until it’s your son or daughter being hooked on his drugs. Then I’m sure you wouldn’t have had a problem with how it went down.
 
#424
#424
1vol8 said:
He’s a known drug dealer. Which means it could’ve been anyone with a high probability of conflict. You want to let him and people like him skate until it becomes easy until it’s your son or daughter being hooked on his drugs. Then I’m sure you wouldn’t have had a problem with how it went down.
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A drug dealer???? Well that changes everything!
 
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