The Golf Thread

#678
#678
orange+white=heaven said:
I don't know, those hybrids are making a lot of duffers look like they actually practice...
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Most duffers, on 14 or so holes, can reach the green in regulation, or regulation +1. That means that if we had an ounce of short game, we could par or bogey our way around and finish in the 86-90 range, round in and round out.

But we don't practice short game. We may occassionally hit off the range, but that's trying to pound drivers and straighten out 7-irons. Most amateurs work on their short game in the worst possible place, which is on the course.
 
#679
#679
lawgator1 said:
Most duffers, on 14 or so holes, can reach the green in regulation, or regulation +1. That means that if we had an ounce of short game, we could par or bogey our way around and finish in the 86-90 range, round in and round out.

But we don't practice short game. We may occassionally hit off the range, but that's trying to pound drivers and straighten out 7-irons. Most amateurs work on their short game in the worst possible place, which is on the course.
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What is it about the driver? Other than promotional days I haven't spent much significant time with a driver on the range for the last year.
 
#680
#680
Lexvol said:
What is it about the driver? Other than promotional days I haven't spent much significant time with a driver on the range for the last year.
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I'm speaking to most duffers. They think crunching it is everything, not realizing that if they hit driver on a straight-away 350 yard par-4 they are in need of serious mental health treatment.

I can punch it 265 or 270 if I am swining well, thoiugh average is probably more like 225. Thing is, if I really am trying to smack it, I could be OB left, in the waa waa, or on the beach. Don't know about you, but I'd rather hit a 7 iron from 165, middle of the fairway, than a 9 iron out of rough so deep I can barely see the ball.

Folks joke about fairways and greens. It is, in fact, the key to success over the course of an entire round.
 
#681
#681
lawgator1 said:
I'm speaking to most duffers. They think crunching it is everything, not realizing that if they hit driver on a straight-away 350 yard par-4 they are in need of serious mental health treatment.

I can punch it 265 or 270 if I am swining well, thoiugh average is probably more like 225. Thing is, if I really am trying to smack it, I could be OB left, in the waa waa, or on the beach. Don't know about you, but I'd rather hit a 7 iron from 165, middle of the fairway, than a 9 iron out of rough so deep I can barely see the ball.

Folks joke about fairways and greens. It is, in fact, the key to success over the course of an entire round.
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In fact, ask Jim Furyk, the guy that gave away the Open by pointlessly hitting driver on the 300 yard par 4 17th hole. His excuse when it got pin high, in deep rough and he bogeyed? I hadn't hit it that far all week.

What? If that's so, then what was he hoping to do by hitting driver that time? Get it to 20 yards short of the green? The green surrounded by trouble? Hey there, eejit, why not hit 5 iron to 100 out and stroke a wedge just past the whole.

Tiger didn't piss it away. Furyk did.

By hitting driver.
 
#682
#682
lawgator1 said:
I'm speaking to most duffers. They think crunching it is everything, not realizing that if they hit driver on a straight-away 350 yard par-4 they are in need of serious mental health treatment.

I can punch it 265 or 270 if I am swining well, thoiugh average is probably more like 225. Thing is, if I really am trying to smack it, I could be OB left, in the waa waa, or on the beach. Don't know about you, but I'd rather hit a 7 iron from 165, middle of the fairway, than a 9 iron out of rough so deep I can barely see the ball.

Folks joke about fairways and greens. It is, in fact, the key to success over the course of an entire round.
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That is 100% correct.
 
#684
#684
Lexvol said:
What is it about the driver? Other than promotional days I haven't spent much significant time with a driver on the range for the last year.
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I might hit 10 drivers in 2 buckets of balls, but I'll hit about 125 wedges.
 
#685
#685
BigPapaVol said:
It ain't quite correct. The modern game is often about approaching, especially from the rough, with the shortest club possible.
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An average golfer that hits fairways and greens is going to fair much better than one who does not. We are not talking the pro game here. The average golfer who flirts with rough will likely be out of bounds once or twice a round.
 
#686
#686
lawgator1 said:
In fact, ask Jim Furyk, the guy that gave away the Open by pointlessly hitting driver on the 300 yard par 4 17th hole. His excuse when it got pin high, in deep rough and he bogeyed? I hadn't hit it that far all week.

What? If that's so, then what was he hoping to do by hitting driver that time? Get it to 20 yards short of the green? The green surrounded by trouble? Hey there, eejit, why not hit 5 iron to 100 out and stroke a wedge just past the whole.

Tiger didn't piss it away. Furyk did.

By hitting driver.
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He hit the driver because he was trying to win and felt his best shot was the 1. On his line, if he hits it his norm, he's sitting in a spot that gives him best shot at birdie. The reason he didn't opt for the iron and wedge was likely because nobody was getting up and down with the wedges anyway (see the absurd par 5 scoring to verify), and the pin was probably situated where a wedge from the fairway wouldn't stop.

Course management is not a Furyk weakness. I suspect he had a very clear and reasonable game plan that just didn't work out. Oh by the way, he hits that driver awfully straight and moves it either way.
 
#687
#687
Lexvol said:
An average golfer that hits fairways and greens is going to fair much better than one who does not. We are not talking the pro game here. The average golfer who flirts with rough will likely be out of bounds once or twice a round.
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But I don't like the implication of that line of thinking, which is basically that the long game is more important than the short. For the average golfer, that could not be further from the truth.
 
#688
#688
BigPapaVol said:
It ain't quite correct. The modern game is often about approaching, especially from the rough, with the shortest club possible.
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Yep . . . I'm a firm believer in the "Bomb and Gouge" theory of course management. Unless the rough is the height of hay, I'll almost always take my chances with a wedge from the rough vs. laying back. Most stats I've seen indicate that despite conventional wisdom of laying up to a comfortable yardage, closer is almost always better.
 
#689
#689
GAVol said:
Yep . . . I'm a firm believer in the "Bomb and Gouge" theory of course management. Unless the rough is the height of hay, I'll almost always take my chances with a wedge from the rough vs. laying back.
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If the rough isn't penal, which is rarely the case at weekender courses or country clubs, bust it and hit the wedge. Trees and/or water, that changes the debate.
 
#690
#690
How so? I am not following. Is it the fact that the average golfer is not going to hit greens? I completely agree that the majority of practice for most of us should be from 60 yards in.
 
#691
#691
GAVol said:
Yep . . . I'm a firm believer in the "Bomb and Gouge" theory of course management. Unless the rough is the height of hay, I'll almost always take my chances with a wedge from the rough vs. laying back. Most stats I've seen indicate that despite conventional wisdom of laying up to a comfortable yardage, closer is almost always better.
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Some people bomb better than others. Maybe I simply play too many tight courses.
 
#692
#692
Lexvol said:
How so? I am not following. Is it the fact that the average golfer is not going to hit greens? I completely agree that the majority of practice for most of us should be from 60 yards in.
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by putting some paramount importance on fairways and greens, or ball striking.

I'd like to see more duffers approach golf from the green back to tee as opposed to vice versa. Getting better around the greens takes so much pressure off the rest of the game. That's when hitting irons gets easier (and the short game practice would help with better, more consistent contact) and hitting tee shots gets easier, etc.
 
#695
#695
BigPapaVol said:
Course management is not a Furyk weakness. I suspect he had a very clear and reasonable game plan that just didn't work out. Oh by the way, he hits that driver awfully straight and moves it either way.
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In the interview I saw, Furyk said he thought his best chance to make birdie was to drive it 20 yards short into a landing area on the left side of the fairway, then chip up to the pin position. The way he explained it, if he hits his drive the same distance as the other three days, he is laying right where he wants for his approach on Sunday. Instead, adrenaline or wheaties or bad luck puts him pin high in the rough.

That was his explanation, FWIW.
 
#696
#696
cotton said:
In the interview I saw, Furyk said he thought his best chance to make birdie was to drive it 20 yards short into a landing area on the left side of the fairway, then chip up to the pin position. The way he explained it, if he hits his drive the same distance as the other three days, he is laying right where he wants for his approach on Sunday. Instead, adrenaline or wheaties or bad luck puts him pin high in the rough.

That was his explanation, FWIW.
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it's almost entertaining that we have LG1 on here bashing the consummate course manager for poor decision making. LG must be one course managing dude (albeit one who apparently plays like a....ahem....pansy)
 
#697
#697
BigPapaVol said:
it's almost entertaining that we have LG1 on here bashing the consummate course manager for poor decision making. LG must be one course managing dude (albeit one who apparently plays like a....ahem....pansy)
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In all fairness, I watched the interview with about 4 friends, and their reactions ranged from, "He's covering up his stupid decision," to "That makes sense." The nice thing about golf is being able to imagine yourself in that situation. I, of course, would have hit driver, run it up onto the green through the small neck between the rough, and then four putted for bogey.
 
#698
#698
Anyone been to the Bear Trace at Ross Creek? I hear good things and will report back after the upcoming trip.
 
#699
#699
BigPapaVol said:
it's almost entertaining that we have LG1 on here bashing the consummate course manager for poor decision making. LG must be one course managing dude (albeit one who apparently plays like a....ahem....pansy)
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Wow.

Well, first, I wouldn't say I'm bashing him exactly. I mean, a lot of golfers (guys who make a living at it) make course management deicisons that backfire. Mickelchoke comes to mind last year at Wing Foot. Van de Velde, well, enough said.

Obviously, if he had it to do over, Furyk would have laid up and been grateful for a par. I do have to say, however, that if birdie was the goal it seems like my strategy had a better chance, what with the rough the way it was to the left there. Also, if Furyk wanted to lay up at that kind of distance he intended, why not hit a 3 wood? Oh, well, spilt milk and all that.

As to aggressive versus conservative (and therefore also in regards to the pansy comment), I think most steady duffers like myself will say the same thing, and that is that it depends on the course. I tend to play the same three or four courses over and over and I play them differently because I know what I'm realistically capable of versus what I wish I could do.

And even that can change depending on how I feel, beer intake to that point, whether there's a bet on the line, etc. Its all situational.

And yes, sometimes that means hitting safe. But that's only because I think it gives me the better chance to be agressive on the next shot.
 
#700
#700
lawgator1 said:
As to aggressive versus conservative...And yes, sometimes that means hitting safe. But that's only because I think it gives me the better chance to be agressive on the next shot.
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I understand what you are saying, and you are correct. However, I like hitting driver. I like thinking that two good shots in a row put me up around the green on 5s in 2. I like aiming for the 14 yd strip between the bunkers on our drivable par 4 9th. And I do put more doubles and triples and snowmen on the card than I should. I try not to be completely stupid with my aggressiveness, but for me, in a typical round, it is the way I like to play so I play it. I look for a reason to bring out the big stick rather than a reason to leave it in the bag, and the times I am hitting it well more than make up for the lost strokes on my card when I am not when it comes to enjoyability of the round.

I won't for a moment argue that it is the optimum way to consistently shoot my best score for 18, but I can't imagine any circumstance that would inspire me to hit 7i-7i into #9 rather than blast a drive while murmuring a short prayer.
 
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