The Green New Deal

#128
#128
0nelilreb said:
Ok if I understand this .. it’s more soy and no meat ? Together with that $14 a pound price tag I see it putting Mc Donald’s out of business within a year . Lol
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More complex than just soy, but demand is driving the price at this point.
 
#129
#129
Stew Cook said:
More complex than just soy, but demand is driving the price at this point.
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Yeah yeah blah blah more complicated than just soy.. more soy into your system and less meat , and that demand is being driven from upscale restaurants it looks like which is why I’m guessing it’s $14/lb
 
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#133
#133
hog88 said:
I think this bill does a good job of summing up what man-made global warming is really all about.

Well done AOC.
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Having seen more details this is the most accurate and insightful post in the thread. Taking Rahm Emanuel's immortal words to heart.
 
#135
#135
Why cant people just accept and understand that our society has been built around and flourished under fossil fuels?
 
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#137
#137
Stew Cook said:
I can tell you, each household or farm could be nearly self sustainable, with very little reliance on fossil, or carbon based fuels. A transition to hydrogen along with solar, wind, and hydroelectric power is not a bad model, IMO.

Oil and gas will eventually be so cost prohibitive, that these alternatives will be a necessity, rather than an option.

Then again, scientific advancements could take us in another direction altogether.
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You know, of course, it takes a significant amount of energy to separate hydrogen to use as a fuel? You should also know that thermodynamically (there is no such thing as perfect conversion or perpetual motion) it takes more energy to produce hydrogen for fuel than is released when the hydrogen is used as a fuel? Hydrogen is clean, but you have to do something involving energy to produce it ... there is virtually no free hydrogen gas on earth.

Then there's the problem with storing hydrogen ... ever see pictures of the Hindenburg? It's pesky stuff being at the extreme left end of the periodic table, and being at the top means it's pretty hard to keep corralled, and that's a particularly bad combination in moving vehicles ... that sudden stopping thing when two objects meet.

Then for combustion there's the thing about byproducts ... unless you are using pure oxygen (which again takes energy to produce) and then it's just water. But if you are using hydrogen and air, there are going to be some gaseous byproducts. It's been over 50 years since I last took a chemistry course, so perhaps there's been some revisionism since then, and I'll admit I absolutely hated chemistry and have tried hard to erase it from memory, so I'm open to the thought that you could know something I don't, but these days a lot of people are making things sound a lot more possible than they are ... at least outside a lab.
 
#138
#138
lawgator1 said:
It's a silly question.

I support the reiteration of the point that man contributes to global warming and we ought to do something about it. I agree with the statement we ought to create millions of high paying jobs. I agree we ought to increase high speed rail.

I would bet 80 percent of the country agrees with that.
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Let's talk over the high speed rail then...

Government sponsored, built and run? Where are they going to put it? Do the Elon Musk thing and make a nationwide subway of a high speed train?

Trust me, I think the idea had serious merit especially at shorter distances. I'd almost say such a system could seriously supplement flights that lasts 30-60 minutes in a lot of places. OKC to Dallas-Fort Worth, Colorado Springs to Denver International, Tampa or Miami to Orlando, Los Angeles to Las Vegas, so on and so forth. Such a system that supplements "feeder" or regional airports heading into your larger airports, non-stop of course, could end up being a smart move. I'd love it if the Amtrak service ran right into the DFW airport from OKC and didn't have five stops along the way.

But what about the land they need to use to put it in? Who maintains it? Ticketing? Scheduling? Do you really trust the government to pull off a miracle of scheduling such a thing?

Yeah, 80% of the country likely would support such a measure like high speed rail if it made things more convenient for travel. But at what cost?
 
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#139
#139
n_huffhines said:
Why? Our beef industry produces unnatural meat already. What is the qualitative difference between a burger made from corn fed cattle and meat grown from the best cells?
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Probably that Monsanto has it's hands in both?
 
#140
#140
AM64 said:
You know, of course, it takes a significant amount of energy to separate hydrogen to use as a fuel? You should also know that thermodynamically (there is no such thing as perfect conversion or perpetual motion) it takes more energy to produce hydrogen for fuel than is released when the hydrogen is used as a fuel? Hydrogen is clean, but you have to do something involving energy to produce it ... there is virtually no free hydrogen gas on earth.

Then there's the problem with storing hydrogen ... ever see pictures of the Hindenburg? It's pesky stuff being at the extreme left end of the periodic table, and being at the top means it's pretty hard to keep corralled, and that's a particularly bad combination in moving vehicles ... that sudden stopping thing when two objects meet.

Then for combustion there's the thing about byproducts ... unless you are using pure oxygen (which again takes energy to produce) and then it's just water. But if you are using hydrogen and air, there are going to be some gaseous byproducts. It's been over 50 years since I last took a chemistry course, so perhaps there's been some revisionism since then, and I'll admit I absolutely hated chemistry and have tried hard to erase it from memory, so I'm open to the thought that you could know something I don't, but these days a lot of people are making things sound a lot more possible than they are ... at least outside a lab.
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Magnesium is the way to go.
 
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#141
#141
shotgun83 said:
I guess I'll to repost this here
I would call for a /thread but this thread may be fun...

View attachment 193408


And add this...

View attachment 193410
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Libs have a problem linking individual and corporate income and wealth to government spending. You just pick more taxes off the tax tree ... simple. In their fertile (or futile) imaginations the stuff to grow tax trees is infinite ... just ask the USSR and a few other socialist havens. In any case, they aren't up to wrapping their heads around those two charts at the same time and seeing the conflict.
 
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#142
#142
AM64 said:
You know, of course, it takes a significant amount of energy to separate hydrogen to use as a fuel? You should also know that thermodynamically (there is no such thing as perfect conversion or perpetual motion) it takes more energy to produce hydrogen for fuel than is released when the hydrogen is used as a fuel? Hydrogen is clean, but you have to do something involving energy to produce it ... there is virtually no free hydrogen gas on earth.
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Methane as the fuel then.

Breed cows under a transparent dome, cows eat grass and other green plants that naturally scrub CO2 from the air, cows fart producing methane, trap the methane to use as fuel, eat cows to provide food for all.

You're welcome, AOC. I got this for you, sweetie!
 
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#143
#143
BigOrangeTrain said:
Why cant people just accept and understand that our society has been built around and flourished under fossil fuels?
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The fragility factor. They can't face the truth, and utopia sounds better. It's why snake oil salesmen have always prospered.
 
#146
#146
Kamala, Booker, Warren, and Sanders all think this is a great idea according to their twitter accounts
 
#147
#147
Grand Vol said:
Methane as the fuel then.

Breed cows under a transparent dome, cows eat grass and other green plants that naturally scrub CO2 from the air, cows fart producing methane, trap the methane to use as fuel, eat cows to provide food for all.

You're welcome, AOC. I got this for you, sweetie!
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Do we still get to eat the cattle?
 
#149
#149
Grand Vol said:
Methane as the fuel then.

Breed cows under a transparent dome, cows eat grass and other green plants that naturally scrub CO2 from the air, cows fart producing methane, trap the methane to use as fuel, eat cows to provide food for all.

You're welcome, AOC. I got this for you, sweetie!
Click to expand...

I don’t know much about the cattle industry but don’t they already have sumps of some sort that traps methane?
 
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