The Green New Deal

#101
#101
RavinDave said:
Well, if it's the only game in town then the sky is the limit on what we'd have to pay for it. But let me ask you a couple of questions. How many square miles of solar panels and/or wind turbine farms would it take to power the Prius's and heat the homes of a million people? Or put it another way: if all of the accessible land in the interior (what used to be known as fly-over country back when, you know, one could actually get on a plane and fly across the country), were converted into solar farms and wind farms, would it be enough to power all the real farms (you know, where farmers grow stuff), dairies (if they are even allowed in the Brave New World, because you know, cows), cities and college campuses in the USA?
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I can tell you, each household or farm could be nearly self sustainable, with very little reliance on fossil, or carbon based fuels. A transition to hydrogen along with solar, wind, and hydroelectric power is not a bad model, IMO.

Oil and gas will eventually be so cost prohibitive, that these alternatives will be a necessity, rather than an option.

Then again, scienctific advancements could take us in another direction altogether.
 
#102
#102
Stew Cook said:
Then again, scienctific advancements could take us in another direction altogether.
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Mr.-Fusion-Close-Square.jpg
 
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#104
#104
Stew Cook said:
I can tell you, each household or farm could be nearly self sustainable, with very little reliance on fossil, or carbon based fuels. A transition to hydrogen along with solar, wind, and hydroelectric power is not a bad model, IMO.

Oil and gas will eventually be so cost prohibitive, that these alternatives will be a necessity, rather than an option.

Then again, scienctific advancements could take us in another direction altogether.
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Well, H2 is a great form of energy but not very abundant in nature except in the form of water or fossil fuels.

Got to either crack or reform hydrocarbons, or do electrolysis to water which requires more electricity than can be produced from the H2 it releases.
 
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#105
#105
RavinDave said:
Well, H2 is a great form of energy but not very abundant in nature except in the form of water or fossil fuels.

Got to either crack or reform hydrocarbons, or do electrolysis to water which requires more electricity than can be produced from the H2 it releases.
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It's a handy alternative to batteries, despite the efficiency tradeoff. And it's a near direct replacemt for fossil fuels.
 
#106
#106
Grand Vol said:
So...you support it or not?
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It's a silly question.

I support the reiteration of the point that man contributes to global warming and we ought to do something about it. I agree with the statement we ought to create millions of high paying jobs. I agree we ought to increase high speed rail.

I would bet 80 percent of the country agrees with that.
 
#108
#108
Stew Cook said:
It's a handy alternative to batteries, despite the efficiency tradeoff. And it's a near direct replacemt for fossil fuels.
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Yes it is handy, and combined with a fuel cell stack can quietly and reliably produce electricity.

But again, producing H2 requires either a conversion of hydrocarbons or electrolysis of water, both of which require more energy than is available from the H2 produced.

So it is not going to contribute to lessening our reliance on fossil fuels any time soon.
 
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#109
#109
10 senators have signed on as sponsors and 1/3 of the Democrats are on board.
 
#113
#113
RavinDave said:
Yes it is handy, and combined with a fuel cell stack can quietly and reliably produce electricity.

But again, producing H2 requires either a conversion of hydrocarbons or electrolysis of water, both of which require more energy than is available from the H2 produced.

So it is not going to contribute to lessening our reliance on fossil fuels any time soon.
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It's one of those things that interests me,.and a good use of surplus electricity, especially with solar.

I found this interesting:
New solar cell generates hydrogen and electricity at the same time
 
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#115
#115
CagleMtnVol said:
Yeah, As someone who lives on a farm where my family has raised beef cattle for a couple of generations. There is no way I'm eating something grown in a lab!
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Why? Our beef industry produces unnatural meat already. What is the qualitative difference between a burger made from corn fed cattle and meat grown from the best cells?
 
#116
#116
Stew Cook said:
It's one of those things that interests me,.and a good use of surplus electricity, especially with solar.

I found this interesting:
New solar cell generates hydrogen and electricity at the same time
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Thanks for the link, I was thinking along those lines the last few minutes, I'll peruse it.
For 6-7 years before I took my early "retirement" in 2010, I'd been spending about 1/3rd of my time on fuel processing for fuel cells... how to produce H2 starting with methane, or propane, or diesel, and make it pure enough to run a fuel cell. Got to visit a lot of companies who were developing different kinds of fuel cells. My former boss, before he came over from Germany, had developed a catalyst for use in the methanol-fueled NECAR that Daimler was developing, before methanol fell out of favor due to concerns about its toxicity. I haven't kept up on fuel cells in recent years but I do have a cylinder of H2 in my lab for certain catalyst tests etc.
 
#117
#117
I guess I'll to repost this here
I would call for a /thread but this thread may be fun...

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And add this...

Screenshot_20190207-204529_Chrome.jpg
 
#122
#122
RavinDave said:
Thanks for the link, I was thinking along those lines the last few minutes, I'll peruse it.
For 6-7 years before I took my early "retirement" in 2010, I'd been spending about 1/3rd of my time on fuel processing for fuel cells... how to produce H2 starting with methane, or propane, or diesel, and make it pure enough to run a fuel cell. Got to visit a lot of companies who were developing different kinds of fuel cells. My former boss, before he came over from Germany, had developed a catalyst for use in the methanol-fueled NECAR that Daimler was developing, before methanol fell out of favor due to concerns about its toxicity. I haven't kept up on fuel cells in recent years but I do have a cylinder of H2 in my lab for certain catalyst tests etc.
Click to expand...

Very cool.. You undoubtedly have a better grasp of the science than I do.
 
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