The "Gruden-Gate" Cover-Up (Long)

#26
#26
Mike4Vols said:
TNHopeful505 ... Ignore most of the replies on this thread. If a post is longer then one line, most of these people can't keep their attention long enough to read it. Anything longer than 'Soon' or 'Boom' is asking too much.

Your post is well constructed and has a lot of great points. I've wondered for some time why neither side has denied the rumors. It doesn't do either side any good to let this fester if there's truly no deal in the works. Even now, Skeeter says the deal is dead but we've heard no information from the AD or Gruden. Strange, to say the least. It's also quite curious why local and national media aren't asking the 'tough' questions.

I'm hopeful but not encouraged by the latest news. Still .... why hasn't anybody killed the rumors from either side?
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they can read your thoughts.. put the tinfoil hat on dude
 
#29
#29
Mike4Vols said:
TNHopeful505 ... Ignore most of the replies on this thread. If a post is longer then one line, most of these people can't keep their attention long enough to read it. Anything longer than 'Soon' or 'Boom' is asking too much.

Your post is well constructed and has a lot of great points. I've wondered for some time why neither side has denied the rumors. It doesn't do either side any good to let this fester if there's truly no deal in the works. Even now, Skeeter says the deal is dead but we've heard no information from the AD or Gruden. Strange, to say the least. It's also quite curious why local and national media aren't asking the 'tough' questions.

I'm hopeful but not encouraged by the latest news. Still .... why hasn't anybody killed the rumors from either side?
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Wouldn't you say the rumors were dead when Gruden said there was no reason for him to meet with Hart?
 
#30
#30
Interesting discussion OP.

Where I am right now is this.... its pretty obvious we've had guys talking to Gruden for months. If Gruden didn't want the job, why did he let that brew so long? I feel like he has a lot of respect for our program... too much to jilt us at the altar.
 
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#31
#31
OP has it right though I said it in many fewer words in the other thread.

Hubbs would be devastated financially if he broke the story disregarding a UT AD mandate not to. He is over a barrel.

The only local media that could break the story is KNS. They are the only ones that have leverage over UT AD with their readership. I dont think they have the journalistic skills to break a story of this magnitude in the sports department.

The naysayers are ridiculous. Gruden either has a contract or they are in the final stages of negotiating and grandstanding over smaller points. The fanbase has spoken and this is probably being used against Hart in negotiations since he cant really not deliver Gruden.
 
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#32
#32
DNBVOL said:
Wouldn't you say the rumors were dead when Gruden said there was no reason for him to meet with Hart?
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That's all hearsay. A public denial from either side is the only source that matters. Everybody else is just guessing...
 
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#36
#36
I posted this earlier, mainly looking through UT's eyes,,,,

I'm just thinking, What name would rejuvenate the fan base? What name would put over 70,000 fans for the O&W game? What name would bring season tickets back up to possible record sales? What name can sale out the first 2 games for 2013 against Austin Peay and Western Kentucky? What name would put money back in to UT's pocket? This name alone would generate so much that I don't understand how UT can not get this worked out with JG..... JON FREEKING GRUDEN
 
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#38
#38
OP, in the quoted section, one of your points reads:
He is the one who is on ESPN MNF under contract for a few more weeks.

That's not correct. He's actually under contract with MNF for four more seasons. He signed a five year extension, to begin in Sept 2012 (this season). So it's 4 more at the conclusion of the current one. linkage
 
#41
#41
you really hooked up on it... We'll have our coach by the 15th and it aint going to Gruden. Good luck finding any followers over 12 years old for your theory. Oh I give you title Original Gruden Gate (OGG)
 
#42
#42
ellivhsaN said:
OP, in the quoted section, one of your points reads:
He is the one who is on ESPN MNF under contract for a few more weeks.

That's not correct. He's actually under contract with MNF for four more seasons. He signed a five year extension, to begin in Sept 2012 (this season). So it's 4 more at the conclusion of the current one. linkage
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My bad. On that, I meant that the MNF season only lasts a few more weeks, and it's been said he would want to finish out the season.

Look, I'm not saying that this is 100% fact, obviously, I don't know any better than anyone else.

But I feel as though what I've said is completely possible. If Gruden IS coming, but it can't be announced until a certain date, then these smokescreens are completely necessary and planted and planned.

That's all I'm saying. You can't assume it's over until it's truly over.

If Gruden is not the coach, I will gladly admit I'm wrong, along with the hundreds of others on here. And if he's not, then I will support the new coach with every fiber I've supported Fulmer, Kiffin and Dooley, and any other coach that will ever coach at UT.

Don't be jerks if you don't agree. I'm just stating a possibility, and giving you my thoughts based on information that I've garnered from this board, just like you have.
 
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#43
#43
Have you ever heard of Occam's Razor?

(wiki def) It's a principle stating that among competing hypotheses, the one that makes the fewest assumptions should be selected.

With that thought in mind, re-read your OP.
 
#44
#44
TNHopeful505 said:
I honestly now believe that this may be the biggest cover up in the history of UT Sports.

Folks, listen very clearly. You cannot trust the media on this.

Think about it:

If Brent Hubbs (For example), saw a picture of Dave Hart and Jon Gruden standing together over a contract and saw the signatures, and heard an audio clip of Jon saying "I'm excited to be the next Head Coach of Tennessee," but Dave Hart said "Brent, I want you to keep this under wraps until ___________."

Does anyone honestly think he would break it?

Does anyone honestly think he would throw away his career by breaking something that isn't supposed to be broken yet?

As soon as (Hubbs) breaks that story, UT would expel him from reporting on UT again. No practices, no game coverage, no interviews. (Hubbs) and the company he works for would be in deep stuff. He would probably lose his job. His company would probably be in trouble without being able to cover the Vols.

Jon Gruden is receiving buyout money from Tampa Bay and a contract with ESPN. He CANNOT be hired by another job yet, for risk of ruining those things, as well as hurting our reputation and his. THAT is why this has not been broken yet, it seems. Smokescreens are being put out to allow things to simmer more. Do you not notice every time it seems things are coming to a point, we hit a "snag" or "something is happening?" It's only to be able to get closer to the date we need. We will interview other candidates to prolong this. We are working on Jon's timetable to make sure he gets all of his affairs in order.

I honestly think that there are people who FULLY know what is going on even within the media.

In a world where I can't even hide what I'm eating for lunch if someone wants to find out, SOMEONE knows what's going on.

These boosters have been talking. They have dropped a lot of money, and you better believe they want to be told the truth about where their millions of dollars are going. That's the people I'm listening to, are the ones making the investment. Based on that, it sounds like Gruden is coming, or it's close to done.

But you CANNOT listen to the media. All of them say they want to report the truth, but when their butt is on the line, they will not risk their job to break the biggest story in the past two decades of UT Football.

I repeat, DO NOT LISTEN TO THE MEDIA. The ONLY media worth listening to are the outside sources that don't have a dog in the fight. The guy from CBS, anyone who covers other teams. If they break it, if they give hints, UT can't punish them.

But as much as I respect Hubbs, Fortenberry, etc, they aren't going to give you anything until its time.

I personally believe and hope that we are truly witnessing one of the greatest sports cover ups in our generation.

Disclaimer: I do not have any sources, I just read this board religiously, and I have a shred of common sense about me.

This is a post I posted yesterday that further explains my thinking

Quote:
Here's the bottom line.

1. Today's Mike and Mike interview shows just how terrible journalism is. They phrased that question terribly, and they had their facts wrong, AND they didn't follow up. What were they expecting? "Jon, is it all true?" "Yes, guys, it's true, and I'm quitting everything right now, before telling anyone else, I'm making 'The Decision' on Mike and Mike at 7:15 in the morning." Total garbage. Does not tell me anything.

2. Gruden sounded as though he wanted to prevent them getting to anything deeper. He moved on very quickly. Because you know the next question would have been "Have you spoken to UT?"

3. Folks, let's be real here. Dave Hart is an idiot if he has 50%+ of the fanbase calling for a particular guy, and he doesn't go get him. Therefore, to say that Gruden hasn't been OFFERED, or to say that he hasn't talked to Tennessee, or to say that we haven't been involved with Gruden, if true, is Dave Hart asking for a death wish. Especially when the major boosters want him.

4. Here's the facts, as far as I can see them:
A. Dave Hart, or at least Tennessee Brass has spoken to and negotiated with, and even possibly signed Jon Gruden. I don't think there is any doubt that he has spoken to, and has serious interest, and maybe even has a deal with UT.

B. Unlike what others have said, the longer this goes on, the better it looks for us with Gruden. We are on HIS timetable. He is the one still getting buyout payments from Tampa Bay. He is the one who is on ESPN MNF under contract for a few more weeks. He is the one that is putting this announcement off. It's not that it's not done, it very well may be. But Gruden is doing nothing but protecting our reputation, and his. And even saving Dooley some embarrassment. There is no need to fear, until it does come out that he publicly states that he has turned down the UT offer. Not that he denies any truth to a "deal in hand, and a share in the Cleveland Browns." I want to hear him deny that he turned down the UT job.

C. Jimmy Stanton says that we refuse to comment on any rumors. THAT is huge to me. If Jon Gruden is not coming, then save him and us the humiliation and questions, and just squash the rumor. "We have spoken to Jon Gruden, however, after gauging his interest, have decided to pursue other candidates." But no, they won't say that. They're not denying it. Which is as good as admitting it.

D. Our AD is not going to spend 11 days negotiating with one particular person. At least, I don't think they would. We are in a race to get the best candidate possible. Auburn and Arkansas are trying as well. If Gruden is not a strong possibility, then we would not allow 11 days to go by with these rumors floating like crazy. We would say what's going on, and shut down candidates as we rule them out.

E. Hart is a mastermind at smokescreens. He has put all sort of them out. Nobody in the AD knows what's going on. But the key is, listen to the money. People who are ponying up money do not do so if there's no knowledge of where or who it's going to. And you've got some people who just dropped a million that are probably out there bragging about the fact that they just dropped a million to help UT get Jon Gruden. And the buzz from the people who are dropping the money is what we're hearing. The media knows nothing, and even if they did, they would not say anything. It would ruin their position with UT to break it before anyone wanted it broken. I'm listening to the people who are close to the boosters. The boosters have to know. They have to. They're not ponying up money for Kirby Smart, they wouldn't. You have to give a plan worth investing into.


5. My final thoughts: I think Gruden is very near to done. I don't think he's mulling any other offers. I think he's just tailoring his contract to get it as close to perfect as he can. He is taking a big risk here too. He needs to make sure that he has plenty of time to figure out the college game, he needs a little cushion for a rocky start, and he has to make sure that if this tarnishes his reputation, he will be okay financially. I would guess everything is just contract work. I'm sure he's putting out things to make people think he's still interested in NFL, but someone said that he and Andy Reid are very close, and he would never take the Eagles job, because of that. I can see that.

I can see Gruden being ready to roll with a near complete staff. I think he's been trying to research what he wants, and then tell UT, this is what I want. Normally, coaches are approached by the university and told "This is your budget, get who you want." This time, Jon Gruden is getting to say, "This is what I want, make this my budget." I can see that as the reason he is talking to Raheem and Bisaccia. "Hey guys, what would it take to get you to come down to the college game?" He's adding it all up, taking it to Hart, and saying, "okay, this is how much I require, now, this is who I want as assistants, and this is how much they are requiring." I think now, it's just a matter of negotiating, and making sure that we are meeting all of his terms.

I can see the timeline playing out as such:

December 17th - Jets vs. Titans, Monday Night Football. This is in Nashville, and is the last technical Monday Night Football. There is a "Monday Night Football" game on a Saturday. Dumbest thing I've ever heard.

December 18th - Gruden is announced as the Head Coach of The University of Tennessee Volunteers.

I realize that is during the dead period, but that gives Gruden the chance to get settled, hire his assistants, and use the dead period as a chance to honestly assess the prospect board.

Then they have 23 days to recruit the class. Thanks to the work of Dooley and staff, it shouldn't be as hard as you think. It could be very easy to pick up a class, and it could be very easy for the new staff to land several that we didn't have on our radar before.

Signing Day - We can probably land a solid Top 10 class. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

But anyways, all of that to say: I'm not worried. I think the timeline is still on our side. I think he's ours. I don't think he goes to the NFL this time. He doesn't want to become public enemy #1 of the University he loves.

Gruden 2012. It's happening.

Quote:
Also, let me add this for you to consider:

Gruden has done himself a TOTAL disservice if he does not plan on taking this job, by not squashing the rumor early, like he did with Arkansas.

He is at the point now, to where if Tennessee signed ANYONE other than Jon Gruden, the ENTIRE FANBASE would know that we signed someone else because Jon Gruden said no.

If he wanted the University where he got his coaching start to hate him, then he would sign with someone else. But he didn't squash the rumors. He let them linger. Therefore, it's either that he walks across the gold lined bridge we're building for him, or he burns a big one.

This is Gruden's last chance at Tennessee. I honestly don't think after this, if it doesn't work out, we would ever go after him again. If he ever wants to coach here, this is his final chance. I just think the fans would sour on him after this. You can only have a girl toy with your emotions so much before you decide you don't want her anymore.

So, I think for that reason, among the others I listed...he's ours.

He's let it go on for too long not to be.
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Headache.
 
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#45
#45
When gruden files a restraining order against Tennessee ... Ill believe there is no chance. Till then hope runs free in my orange heart!!
 
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#46
#46
I agree with the assumptions here. I don't know if it is going to happen, as these things can fall apart in the midnight hour, however right now I think this is exactly where things stand between UT and Gruden.
 
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#47
#47
What assumptions I have made:

1. I have assumed that media knows something. This assumption based off the fact that there can be no physical way without the government being involved that someone can try to do something in today's day and time without someone knowing about it. If Kate Middleton can't even walk outside topless in a fenced in backyard on a private beach without someone getting a picture, how can Dave Hart contact people (anybody at all) without SOMETHING coming out. And how can it be that he contacts Gruden without anyone knowing anything about it? I think it's a safe assumption that there is someone in the media who knows something. Boro' Vol has suggested the same thing on here as well.

2) I assume that Dave Hart has talked to Jon Gruden. That is not as much an assumption anymore. If he hasn't talked to the man that over 50% of the fan base wants, and at least gauged his interest, then he should be fired. Not an assumption.

3) I am assuming that if anyone in the media knew anything and was under obligation not to tell, that they would not break the news and therefore be forced to try to deny or cover it up. Is that a wild assumption? That someone, knowing the truth, in order to save their job, would just delay the reporting of it? If you don't think that's what a certain President and Secretary of State did in Libya right now, you're crazy.

4) I'm assuming that if UT found out someone knew and broke a story they would expel them from covering UT. I don't see where that is a major assumption. Of course, now if someone finds out on their own volition, and there's no "don't tell" stipulation, cool. But if it's the case where we're working on a specific timeline for specific reasons, maybe some that could even result in the deal being broken, or legal action taken, then I think it's safe to say that UT would be at the very least upset with someone who broke the story if it weren't to be so.

5) I'm making an assumption that we are trying to hold off an announcement until December, because we're working on Jon Gruden's timetable. If this is not true, then we better be on a bunch of other candidates already, because we've been without a coach now for 11 days, and we've known it was coming for longer. Yet, nobody has talked about Hart bringing in or talking to really anybody. He hasn't left the office hardly at all. If we are in dealings with Gruden, and if he is ours, he has more to lose by announcing it now then we do. We have nothing to lose by announcing him now. But if it's not him, why aren't we seemingly "any closer" than we were, at least to the general knowledge?

6) I'm assuming that many things are smokescreens. There always are smokescreens. Smokescreens are used for multiple purposes. Normally, they are used to 1) Divert people's attention to someone that is not true, in order to release pressure on what is really happening. 2) Protect people's reputations. 3) Allow more things to be done without the public being able to anticipate every move, thereby avoiding pitfalls and chances of looking bad. Absolutely there are some smokescreens going on. We are dealing with an NFL coach deliberating making a move that very few are making, while still in the middle of buyout money and a ESPN contract. Those things can be jeopardized very easily, according to my understanding. Plus, if it is happening, and needs to be put off for a while, the last thing anyone needs is more true reports coming out, or even false positive reports. So therefore, you must throw out either other names that are to be interviewed, or report complications or failure or delays in the dealings of the target.

7) I'm assuming that at least one of the boosters who have donated money to this know what's going on, and haven't kept their mouth shut. We're talking about a lot of money here..coming from a lot of people. The odds are on my side that someone who knows something has talked. And is right.

8) I'm assuming that by Gruden cutting off Mike and Mike's question that he didn't want to talk about it means that there's something going on. Well, why not, if it's really not true, say something like "I love the University of Tennessee, but I'm not interested." To just dismiss a thing vaguely (Because it was NOT about Tennessee, but about the Cleveland Browns stock), just furthers the assumptions being made. If it's not true and he is not coming, then just squash the rumors. You go straight from having the blame on you for not accepting it, to having the blame on Hart for not offering you, and Gruden is clear!

9) I'm assuming by Stanton not commenting, that it is admitting guilt more than denying anything. Well, didn't everyone? Once again, if it's not true, then SQUASH THE RUMOR.

Yes, I'm making assumptions. But I don't see where ANY of my assumptions, based off of what I've read on here from those that "seem to know" are crazy.
 
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#48
#48
Is there no real evidence of anything? Because he said no, that mean's yes? Mike and Mike didn't word their question right? I mean really, hey the sun's out here in georgia, that mean's gruden will be our next coach! I was off work today, that mean's gruden is coming, my girl had girl scout's that mean's gruden is coming?? I apologize, but I am here looking for anything that is in anyway real proof and all I have seen are stories like this, and everybody and their mom has a 'for sure' source who's info is alway's wrong. Just my lowly thought's.
 
#50
#50
joevol33 said:
Is there no real evidence of anything? Because he said no, that mean's yes? Mike and Mike didn't word their question right? I mean really, hey the sun's out here in georgia, that mean's gruden will be our next coach! I was off work today, that mean's gruden is coming, my girl had girl scout's that mean's gruden is coming?? I apologize, but I am here looking for anything that is in anyway real proof and all I have seen are stories like this, and everybody and their mom has a 'for sure' source who's info is alway's wrong. Just my lowly thought's.
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If you're looking for "any real evidence" you won't find any until someone is standing at a presser. I don't have any, and neither does anyone on this board. And even if they did, those who are skeptical won't believe them. But I do believe there are people that know what's going on. In a search of this magnitude, there has to be. And no, I don't believe everything I hear, and no, I don't credit everything as a sign, like your ignorant post is suggesting.

But i've followed this VERY closely, and I've seen just about every tweet, heard every "insiders" statement, heard just about everything that has come up, and I am just putting together a list of assumptions of things that may be.

As I've said, if I'm wrong, I will freely admit it, and just say that I was wrong and I won't be the only one. But I have seen enough on this site and others to know that something is just not right, and I'm simply proposing a "what if" scenario that I think might be going on.

No need to make fun if you don't agree. My posts are a lot more researched than some others on here.
 
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