The Heisman race is really just beginning

#76
#76
You are confusing raw talent with success. It is ok kptvol, it is a common mistake.
 
#77
#77
therealUT said:
You are confusing raw talent with success. It is ok kptvol, it is a common mistake.
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Much like you are confused in thinking that you are winning this argument. If you are in fact correct, and Ryan Leaf is some great talent, then I guess every NFL team made the "common mistake" of not making him their starter. Maybe you should see if Al Davis will let you take over the Raiders so you can make even worse executive decisions.
 
#78
#78
Let's try this again, KPT. Talent does not equal success. Someone with great talent can easily squander it, and someone with less talent can dedicate themselves to improving what they have and achieve great success.
 
#79
#79
therealUT said:
Let's try this again, KPT. Talent does not equal success. Someone with great talent can easily squander it, and someone with less talent can dedicate themselves to improving what they have and achieve great success.
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How about try this. Joe Montana played for Notre Dame. He earned his NFL consideration by playing good competition. Ryan Leaf put up numbers comparable to Peyton Manning. The difference was that Manning played in the NFL training ground that is the SEC and Leaf played in the offensive free for all that is the Pac-10. Leaf was never that talented. Had he played for a good SEC team, he likely would not have made it past 2nd string. He would not have put up Heisman numbers. He would not have been drafted in the first round. He would not have been possibly the biggest NFL bust ever. If you want to see a guy that squandered talent, you can take a look at James Banks. He performed at a level that would have allowed him to get drafted had he kept his head on straight. He'd probably be on an NFL roster as we speak, but he squandered his talent. Leaf got the chance to showcase his "talent." He played himself out of the NFL.
 
#80
#80
therealUT said:
You are confusing raw talent with success. It is ok kptvol, it is a common mistake.
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arent you the one confusing raw talent? Manning who owns every major UT passing record you call raw talent, and Ainge who doesn't own any records to date your call success. You have it backwards.
 
#81
#81
therealUT said:
Let's try this again, KPT. Talent does not equal success. Someone with great talent can easily squander it, and someone with less talent can dedicate themselves to improving what they have and achieve great success.
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I believe you have made the Peyton argument yourself. He's a great talent who has always been dedicated to improvement. That puts him at the top of the list by your own measuring stick.
 
#82
#82
SO, you aren't talking about stats, and you don't care about talent. All you care about are results. W's or L's ok. How about Peyton Manning never lost to Georgia. How about Peyton Manning beat Alabama 3 straight times when no UT QB in ten years had done so, the first one being in Birmingham. How about we admit beating Ohio State is relevant point considering they were number 5 in the country and not to mention the Buckeye's had their Heisman trophy winning RB Eddie George with them. How about beating UCLA in Pasadena in '97 when the Bruins went on to win 10 games, finishing 1st in the PAC10 and 5th in the country. And lest we forget that Peyton won the '97 SEC championship.. (doesn't that make him a champion?) against a 10-3 Auburn team whose only loses came to Florida (who also beat us, and were National Champions in '96), Mississippi State (who represented the SEC west in '98), and Tennessee. So first and foremost, Ainge has to win an SEC title.

These seem like results to me.. maybe that's just me. Oh yea, Peyton Manning never lost more than two ball games in a year. Tee Martin lost three in '99 coming off a national championship... soo... what am I missing here?

I support Ainge as much as anybody, and I'm happy he's having this monster year. But he isn't Peyton. He's nothing like Peyton. He's a completely different animal for a million reasons. So, no one will ever forget Peyton. But if Ainge continues with this success he's building week by week, he's going to have his own individual place in Vol history.
 
#83
#83
But if Ainge continues with this success he's building week by week, he's going to have his own individual place in Vol history
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Lets stay grounded here and see what happens. I remember all the hype following Casey Clausen after his sophmore year.

Ainge looks golden this year but next year could be different. Lets say Cut and Meachem both leave...Erik will be playing with his third OC in four years and without his top three recievers from a year ago.
 
#85
#85
TravisHenryCBlockedMe said:
Lets stay grounded here and see what happens. I remember all the hype following Casey Clausen after his sophmore year.

Ainge looks golden this year but next year could be different. Lets say Cut and Meachem both leave...Erik will be playing with his third OC in four years and without his top three recievers from a year ago.
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I did say if... I don't hand Ainge anything.. thanks VolinArizona
 
#86
#86
therealUT said:
Ainge has one more tough defense to face, LSU. He has to have a big game against the Bayou Bengals.

Troy Smith only faces one more tough defense, however, it is the Michigan defense that made Brady Quinn look like a junior varsity QB.

Adrian Peterson probably has the easiest road ahead of him, however, Missouri could trip up his bid for the Heisman. That game is in Columbia, and Tony Temple is getting better every single game. If OU loses to Mizzou, and Adrian Peterson rushes for less than 100, then he is out of the race.

Calvin Johnson: Clemson, Miami, and UGA...

Slaton might have an easier road than Peterson, however, I do not see Heisman voters giving the trophy to a player who faced no competition all year.

Chris Leak...Tim Tebow was responsible for 3 Florida TDs in a game in which UF only scored 23 points. That does not bode well for Chrissy.
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How can anyone overlook the Bama and Arkansas defenses still facing UT. These 2 teams will totally bring it when it comes to the Vols. I am thrilled to see Ainge and UT's O having such a great year. I agree that if Ainge continues he will most likley recieve an invite for the Heisman presentation, but there is no way he wins it with UT's lose to UF. Tee Martin was one of my favorite QB's at UT. His dual threat made him such a great QB much like Tony Robinson. So hard to defend. As far as Peyton, he will always be a favorite for UT fans and I will not be surprised to see him as the Head Coach for the BIG ORANGE once he retires from the NFL!
 
#87
#87
Atomic Orange said:
How can anyone overlook the Bama and Arkansas defenses still facing UT. These 2 teams will totally bring it when it comes to the Vols. I am thrilled to see Ainge and UT's O having such a great year. I agree that if Ainge continues he will most likley recieve an invite for the Heisman presentation, but there is no way he wins it with UT's lose to UF. Tee Martin was one of my favorite QB's at UT. His dual threat made him such a great QB much like Tony Robinson. So hard to defend. As far as Peyton, he will always be a favorite for UT fans and I will not be surprised to see him as the Head Coach for the BIG ORANGE once he retires from the NFL!
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Georgia's talent on D >>>>>> Alabama's talent on D
Georgia's talent on D >>>>>> Arkansas's talent on D

I know its hard to see that right now after we handed them 50 hobnail boots, but its the case.
 
#88
#88
Thank you for pointing out the obvious VolinAZ.

Ainge showed he is capable of picking apart good defenses by his showing against UGA. If he is able to do it against LSU, a better defense than UGA, then he will certainly be able to do it against the rest of the schedule.

Also, I have no doubt he will pick Bama apart, since we have two weeks to prepare.
 
#89
#89
Sometimes I'd swear the in state papers write about the hot topic around here....

tfpOnline:On Ainge and Other Heisman Candidates
Erik Ainge is not receiving much attention from Heisman Trophy watch lists so far this season, and that’s good news for Tennessee’s quarterback.

Preseason Heisman Trophy favorites are like budding swimsuit models strolling down a runway surrounded by judges: Every part of them is analyzed and critiqued until a flaw is exposed. And one blemish can relegate a Heisman Trophy candidate — or a budding swimsuit model — to a small blurb on page 76 of Sports Illustrated
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...Brady Quinn is still trying to overcome a poor performance against Michigan. But since he plays for Notre Dame, he’ll probably have to suffer through two more bad games, kill a small child and rob a bank to fall off the Heisman watch lists.

Meanwhile, Ainge can continue to gain confidence under David Cutcliffe and pile up numbers as the nation starts to take notice and other candidates tumble. Tennessee’s next four games — against Alabama, South Carolina, LSU and Arkansas — will likely be televised nationally. If Ainge continues lobbing touchdown passes to Robert Meachem and Bret Smith, he’ll get noticed when it matters most.

(Side note: If speedy Ohio State receiver and kick returner Ted Ginn Jr. returns a punt for a touchdown late in the season and strikes a Heisman pose — sparking approximately 1,412 ESPN replays — all bets are off. Just give him the trophy.) Members of the Tennessee sports information department will be ready. They aren’t likely ever to unload a Manning-like Heisman campaign again, but longtime SID Bud Ford said tools such as teleconferences and Web site promotions will be used if Ainge enters the race.

"But," he said, "we’re not quite at that point yet. There’s several key games left in the season."

And remember, those losses to Florida tend to haunt Heisman Trophy candidates at Tennessee.

Just ask Manning.
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#90
#90
therealUT said:
Thank you for pointing out the obvious VolinAZ.

Ainge showed he is capable of picking apart good defenses by his showing against UGA. If he is able to do it against LSU, a better defense than UGA, then he will certainly be able to do it against the rest of the schedule.

Also, I have no doubt he will pick Bama apart, since we have two weeks to prepare.
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Don't get me wrong. I hope and pray you guys are right on. I guess I guess my optimisim is just a little more guarded as we have seen years in the past where Bama has beaten UT with a lesser team. And Ark always plays UT tough especially there. Anyway, GO VOLS!! Nothing I would like better than to see us hang 50 on Bama!
 
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