The honeymoon is ALREADY over? Shocking numbers

#51
#51
KB5252 said:
Your opinions on the country are a classic case of projection, people often like to think majaroity of the country falls in line with their beliefs.

You reach at every opportunity to say that something proves or backs up your beliefs but it has been demonstrated time and again faulty logic at best. The vast majority of this country usually lines up somewhere in between the right and the left. Your insistence that it does not is good evidence you have a serious disconnect with reality and little else you say should be given a second thought.
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QFT :clap:
 
#52
#52
Vol Mania 21 said:
didn't know the republican party was radical. i thought they had actually moved from their values, and obama is a liberal. but does utgibbs think that he is more center than the avg repub?
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utgibbs is about the same deviation from the center as the average republican, imo.
 
#53
#53
KB5252 said:
Your opinions on the country are a classic case of projection, people often like to think majaroity of the country falls in line with their beliefs.

You reach at every opportunity to say that something proves or backs up your beliefs but it has been demonstrated time and again faulty logic at best. The vast majority of this country usually lines up somewhere in between the right and the left. Your insistence that it does not is good evidence you have a serious disconnect with reality and little else you say should be given a second thought.
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Actually, it's data driven.

Sometimes my vocabulary has been proved faulty, but the logic, the data, the facts, have been impeccable in the main.

But I understand the deep need to deflect from those simple truths.
 
#54
#54
IPorange said:
utgibbs is about the same deviation from the center as the average republican, imo.
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There is no intrinsic virtue in the center.

And I would say you are probably correct.

When people ask my politics, my general response is "Hang a Left at Gandhi."
 
#56
#56
utgibbs said:
So you say, but in just about every example you've given I would best describe you as missing the forest for the trees. In most cases you select a few sentences, often out of context, that do not fall in line with the overarching view of the particular article, statement etc, you are citing.
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#57
#57
IPorange said:
utgibbs is about the same deviation from the center as the average republican, imo.
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The average republican politician or the average republican? There is certainly a distinction that needs to be made IMO.

If you were to qualify that statement with the average "moral majority" Republican I would tend to agree with you they are very similar. Right of center republican are a totally different story though they often fall in line during election years much as left center democrats do.
 
#58
#58
utgibbs said:
There is no intrinsic virtue in the center.

And I would say you are probably correct.

When people ask my politics, my general response is "Hang a Left at Gandhi."
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Just out of curiosity what would you say are your most important issues and stances on government?
 
#59
#59
KB5252 said:
So you say, but in just about every example you've given I would best describe you as missing the forest for the trees. In most cases you select a few sentences, often out of context, that do not fall in line with the overarching view of the particular article, statement etc, you are citing.
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Example?
 
#60
#60
Not surprising the numbers are better since the only people home to answer the phone are the out of work Democrats.

But seriously, when was this poll taken. If it was post AZ tragedy it's not surprising his approval rating increased.
 
#61
#61
utgibbs said:
Example?
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Your infamous greed statements and the citing of Greenspan who didn't actually back up your statement unless you disregarded the overall statement and instead focused on one or two particular sentences.
 
#62
#62
utgibbs said:
In truth, the Republican base is no larger than 25%, probably less. Much of that support is garnered by hoodwinking deeply religious Southerners voting against their economic interests. Gerrymandering, a significant fraction who simply don't bother, and the sizeable US "independent" vote which swings both ways (double entendre intended) is the only reason they are a significant party with election wins. What support they do have, however, is very powerful - especially the Right Wing media. Mobilizing that independent vote and the Southern Strategy has been their strenght over the last 40 years. They couldn't win a one-horse race for most of the 20th century.

25% is probably near the correct level (maybe a smidge high) without the science of marketing making their products "saleable". There may be some blowback from the Giffords shooting, but the figure seems sensible.

Although there is far wider support for the Democratic Party, the real story is the great apathy of the American voter at large. If the Dems decided to actually distinguish themselves from Republican candidates on economic issues, they (Repubs) would not win another election in this country. However, since the Dems have far wider popular support, AND since they are more effective managers of the neoliberal enterprise, Sarah Palin is being supported by powerful interests in order to drive a stake into the Republican Party.

Does anyone disagree?
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Here's a fact utgibbs. Every business owner is a greedy money hungry person to some extent or another. All business owners want to make more money now than they did previously. No business owner does not want to grow. You cannot grow without the labor to maintain that growth. Problem is when you tax the business owner more and take his net return down he gets scared and does not want to spend more to make less so he ends up firing or offshoring pay roll. If the business owner has more net return due to less taxes he will feel that the extra cash could be used to grow his business and make even more money. I have never met a single business who does not feel this way once it is broken down to black and white.

These stupid southerns get that. It's why the south is gaining seats and population and the north is going backwards fast. People want to make money and not watch it all get taxed.
 
#66
#66
KB5252 said:
Just out of curiosity what would you say are your most important issues and stances on government?
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Great question which will take a long time to answer in full, so I would suggest you "stay tuned" to the Politics board for a full answer over time.

The short answer to your question is in the Preamble: "promote the general welfare". Government should concern itself with the health, wellbeing, and prosperity of its people. It is very good at doing several things.

Human needs change with time, and government must change with those needs. Again, the devil will be in the details, but a short-line item list, omitting all nuance would be:

1. Climate Change
2. Health care
3. Education (although we are stuck in an Industrial Revolution style education that needs radical makeover)
4. Living wages (including elderly)
5. Regulation

What we need a lot less of:

1. Military both defense and war spending
2. Prisons / Police
3. Cars and roads (although CC makes this inevitable)
4. Corporate Welfare (including 7% of revenues from Corporate tax - a travesty).

A list like this sounds trite (Climate Change affects so many generations - touches on transport, energy, foreign aid, etc), but I feel certain this is probably what you were looking for.
 
#68
#68
KB5252 said:
Your infamous greed statements and the citing of Greenspan who didn't actually back up your statement unless you disregarded the overall statement and instead focused on one or two particular sentences.
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If anything, the entire article backed up my assertation giving an unambiguous history of Alan Greenspan as an acolyte of Ayn Rand, who wrote an entire philosophy regarding the virtue of greed and selfishness. Greenspan said unambiguously "there are more avenues to express greed," and he had been wrong all these years. The article's title is "Greed as Virtue" denoting exactly how much it is accepted wisdom.

I'm not sure how much more concrete you can get without going Gordon Gekko.
 
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#69
#69
utgibbs said:
Great question which will take a long time to answer in full, so I would suggest you "stay tuned" to the Politics board for a full answer over time.

The short answer to your question is in the Preamble: "promote the general welfare". Government should concern itself with the health, wellbeing, and prosperity of its people. It is very good at doing several things.

Human needs change with time, and government must change with those needs. Again, the devil will be in the details, but a short-line item list, omitting all nuance would be:

1. Climate Change
2. Health care
3. Education (although we are stuck in an Industrial Revolution style education that needs radical makeover)
4. Living wages (including elderly)
5. Regulation

What we need a lot less of:

1. Military both defense and war spending
2. Prisons / Police
3. Cars and roads (although CC makes this inevitable)
4. Corporate Welfare (including 7% of revenues from Corporate tax - a travesty).

A list like this sounds trite (Climate Change affects so many generations - touches on transport, energy, foreign aid, etc), but I feel certain this is probably what you were looking for.
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Wow! Your priorities are even further out of whack than I had imagined.
 
#71
#71
VolsNSkinsFan said:
I guess you are cool with 10% unemployment?
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I believe in full employment, but I don't really want people spending lives producing cheap tat or filing other people's fingernails. So, there is a LOT in just this statement. To be honest, it touches education too. A trite list just has no nuance. If you are truly curious about my views, I'm sure they will come out over time.

We've got 15 - 20% unemployment now. The announced unemployment figure is half the real figure. In fact, I recently saw economists calling it "% of the available workforce participating in the economy" or something like that. This was at 81% or so.
 
#72
#72
Vol Mania 21 said:
climate change is most important? and we need less military and police. interesting concept
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Not even close.

Addressing climate change would lead us to a new world - a happier, healthier, and more convivial world. It touches on everything: energy, transport, foreign aid, national parks, work, our very souls.

It's not even remotely close.
 
#73
#73
utgibbs said:
Not even close.

Addressing climate change would lead us to a new world - a happier, healthier, and more convivial world. It touches on everything: energy, transport, foreign aid, national parks, work, our very souls.

It's not even remotely close.
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:eek:lol:
 
#74
#74
utgibbs said:
I believe in full employment, but I don't really want people spending lives producing cheap tat or filing other people's fingernails. So, there is a LOT in just this statement. To be honest, it touches education too. A trite list just has no nuance. If you are truly curious about my views, I'm sure they will come out over time.

We've got 15 - 20% unemployment now. The announced unemployment figure is half the real figure. In fact, I recently saw economists calling it "% of the available workforce participating in the economy" or something like that. This was at 81% or so.
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so stay at home moms married to millionares should be included in the unemployed figure. interesting logic. does it bother you that your trillion of keynes stimulus didn't help the labor market in the slightest? didn't make you question yoru assumptions?
 
#75
#75
utgibbs said:
Not even close.

Addressing climate change would lead us to a new world - a happier, healthier, and more convivial world. It touches on everything: energy, transport, foreign aid, national parks, work, our very souls.

It's not even remotely close.
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Gosh I sure hope the world can get as convivial as the postal service.
 
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