The Impeachment Thread

[Vol Main]

Where are those whistleblowers? They disappeared into the night.

Testimony from whistle blowers is not necessary because allegations in their reposts are supported with testimony from other people. The House subpoenaed documents, but Trump ordered ever person in his administration to withhold evidence.

 

[Orange defense]

View attachment 256052

Inside the milk carton?

 

[luthervol]

So far the Senate is following the same rules as they used during the Clinton trial so I don't understand all the bitching.

A look back at how Clinton’s impeachment trial unfolded

I'll take this angle.
The Senate established rules during the Clinton impeachment with knowledge and consideration of how the house investigation was carried out and the obstacles which were faced. During the Clinton investigation the house was given access to all relevant witnesses and documentation, they were even provided the interviews conducted during the special counsel's investigation. The house was not faced with conducting the investigation from scratch and did not face the legal delays faced by the house during the Trump investigation.
In short, the house investigating Clinton had few if any of the obstacles faced by the house investigating Trump.
Rules written to insure a "fair" trial would not and could not be same for the two because the investigations were in no way similar through no fault of the house.

 

[Vol Main]

Shifty schifft we are imagining and feeling stuff now, on the floor? Really?

"Were you born an @sshole, or did you just turn out that way?"

 

[Orange defense]

Testimony from whistle blowers is not necessary because allegations in their reposts are supported with testimony from other people. The House subpoenaed documents, but Trump ordered ever person in his administration to withhold evidence.

Not necessary? Heck, the other witnesses didn’t even know who is who? When you get that this one said this, and that one heard it from this one, and the other one heard it from this other one. Where did the whistleblowers hear that from? Or hear it from whom? So, the whistleblowers heard it from, seen it from, or never mind. HECK, we DON’T EVEN KNOW WHO THE WHISTLEBLOWERS ARE? Even Jim Jordan is confused.

 

[Weezer]

First off, preserving the constitution and our very democracy is exactly what the democrats are attempting to do right now. Removing Trump from office would just be collateral to that.

That is where you are wrong, in fact. Sure, do the democrats completely dislike Trump and have they been on his case since before day 1, absolutely. Impeachment wasn't even an option for Pelosi, in fact she rallied against it UNTIL Trump finally crossed the line of what could be excused and what couldn't be. Impeachment wasn't even a reality until Trump pulled the Ukraine crap. Clinton, in all actuality shouldn't have been impeached for cheating on his wife and making a deposit into Lewinsky. At worst the guy was immoral/unethical but not worthy of impeachment. Trump on the other hand used the office of the president in an attempt for his own personal gain. That alone is a reason for impeachment and removal. Not even bringing in obstructing congress. If there was ever a valid time to use impeachment ever in our history it is now, against Trump.

The point of my original post was to state that despite what you might think of me I value the balance that we typically have between democrats and republicans. I'm afraid that in their effort to defend and protect Trump they actually do so much harm to their own party that it takes them forever to recover. Who knows, it may already be too late.

Clinton wasn't impeached for cheating on Hillary. The idea that infidelity is why he was impeached is as stupid as the idea that UT fired Bruce Pearl over a bbq. Bill Clinton lied under oath. Not during a Congressional investigation but in a deposition for the sexual harassment lawsuit filed against him by Paula Jones. He encouraged Monica to lie as well. It was a sexual harassment lawsuit so extra-marital affairs were relevant. And he lied, under oath. Let's get our history straight here. That's known as perjury, an actual crime defined under the law. Not some vague BS being thrown out there trying to unseat someone because he hurts your feels. Most people who commit perjury go to jail.

Trump hasn't done anything that reaches Constitutional reasons for impeachment. No treason, no bribery, no other high crimes. Two extremely vague charges of abuse of power and obstruction of Congress. Neither mentioned by the Constitution, and not deserving to fall under "other high crimes and misdemeanors". This whole process has been a sham.

 

[hog88]

I'll take this angle.
The Senate established rules during the Clinton impeachment with knowledge and consideration of how the house investigation was carried out and the obstacles which were faced. During the Clinton investigation the house was given access to all relevant witnesses and documentation, they were even provided the interviews conducted during the special counsel's investigation. The house was not faced with conducting the investigation from scratch and did not face the legal delays faced by the house during the Trump investigation.
In short, the house investigating Clinton had few if any of the obstacles faced by the house investigating Trump.
Rules written to insure a "fair" trial would not and could not be same for the two because the investigations were in no way similar through no fault of the house.

That's a lot of words for this

 

[luthervol]

That's a lot of words for this

View attachment 256055

I was confident you would have no legitimate response.
Kind of blows your whole "fairness" crap all to hell.

 

[volfanhill]

President Trump got the left to care about spending and deficits, that alone makes him the greatest President of all time

Yea but he got the GOP to not give a **** about them. So kind of a wash.

 

[hog88]

I was confident you would have no legitimate response.
Kind of blows your whole "fairness" crap all to hell.

This is politics. The way the house ran their investigation wasn't "fair" and I didn't see you crying about that.

 

[Weezer]

You still using words like coup, witch hunt, no collusion, and hoax i see. Don't you feel the least bit like a bleating sheep? People might take you serious if you use your own big boy words and not those of the toddler in chief.

Funny considering you're blindly following along with the Dem assertion that a crime has been committed when it hasn't. Seems the left is trying to hold Trump to a standard they never held Obama to.

 

[Vol Main]

Not necessary? Heck, the other witnesses didn’t even know who is who? When you get that this one said this, and that one heard it from this one, and the other one heard it from this other one. Where did the whistleblowers hear that from? Or hear it from whom? So, the whistleblowers heard it from, seen it from, or never mind. HECK, we DON’T EVEN KNOW WHO THE WHISTLEBLOWERS ARE? Even Jim Jordan is confused.

You are confused.

 

[Orange defense]

"Were you born an @sshole, or did you just turn out that way?"

So, I’m an A-hole, because shifty Schiff is feeling and imaginations running on the floor? What? This doesn’t make any since, because he is doing that.

 

[luthervol]

Clinton wasn't impeached for cheating on Hillary. The idea that infidelity is why he was impeached is as stupid as the idea that UT fired Bruce Pearl over a bbq. Bill Clinton lied under oath. Not during a Congressional investigation but in a deposition for the sexual harassment lawsuit filed against him by Paula Jones. He encouraged Monica to lie as well. It was a sexual harassment lawsuit so extra-marital affairs were relevant. And he lied, under oath. Let's get our history straight here. That's known as perjury, an actual crime defined under the law. Not some vague BS being thrown out there trying to unseat someone because he hurts your feels. Most people who commit perjury go to jail.

Trump hasn't done anything that reaches Constitutional reasons for impeachment. No treason, no bribery, no other high crimes. Two extremely vague charges of abuse of power and obstruction of Congress. Neither mentioned by the Constitution, and not deserving to fall under "other high crimes and misdemeanors". This whole process has been a sham.

Trump has done plenty that reaches the level of high crimes and misdemeanors (you inadvertently left out that word). Plus you have the whole clear and obvious attempted bribery.

 

[Coug]

Trump hasn't done anything that reaches Constitutional reasons for impeachment. No treason, no bribery, no other high crimes. Two extremely vague charges of abuse of power and obstruction of Congress. Neither mentioned by the Constitution, and not deserving to fall under "other high crimes and misdemeanors". This whole process has been a sham.

Well, that didn't last long. Here I thought I was going to have an intellectual conversation with you, Weezer. And then you go and run off with this Trump rhetoric. So disappointing.

 

[Orange defense]

You are confused.

Yeppers, I’m so confused with Jim Jordan.

 

[luthervol]

This is politics. The way the house ran their investigation wasn't "fair" and I didn't see you crying about that.

You're the one who has been throwing the "fair" word around like you have some kind of actual point.

 

[hog88]

You're the one who has been throwing the "fair" word around like you have some kind of actual point.

My only comments about "fair" was in pointing out that the rules they are using pretty much mirror the ones used in Clinton's trial. Did Clinton get a "fair" trial?

 

[Weezer]

I was confident you would have no legitimate response.
Kind of blows your whole "fairness" crap all to hell.

Because Schiff made sure to establish "fair" rules in the House "investigation". Hypocrisy at it's finest. Dems set things up to their advantage in the part of Congress they control, then turn around and cry about not being able to do the same in the part they do not.

 

[Weezer]

Trump has done plenty that reaches the level of high crimes and misdemeanors (you inadvertently left out that word). Plus you have the whole clear and obvious attempted bribery.

Look at the end of the post and you'll see I included misdemeanors.

He's not being charged with bribery. Do you even understand how this process works? He's facing two charges, both incredibly vague. Abuse of power, and obstruction of Congress. Neither of which reach the level of impeachment IMO. The Dems have overplayed their hand.

 

[Vol Main]

Well, that didn't last long. Here I thought I was going to have an intellectual conversation with you, Weezer. And then you go and run off with this Trump rhetoric. So disappointing.

The House Speaker has alleged that Trump used U.S. tax dollars and military aid for attempted bribery of Ukraine's President, in a quid pro quo exchange for Zelensky announcing a bogus investigation against the leading Democratic candidate.

 

[hog88]

The House Speaker has alleged that Trump used U.S. tax dollars and military aid for attempted bribery of Ukraine's President, in a quid pro quo exchange for Zelensky announcing a bogus investigation against the leading Democratic candidate.

She should have spelled that out in the impeachment counts.

 

[luthervol]

My only comments about "fair" was in pointing out that the rules they are using pretty much mirror the ones used in Clinton's trial. Did Clinton get a "fair" trial?

And I was only commenting on the fact that the rules for Clinton's trial were written in consideration of the house's investigation.
The investigations were met with entirely different hurdles and for rules to guarantee a fair trial, they would have to acknowledge and compensate for those differences - in now way should they be exactly the same.

As it seems to be shaping up - Clinton will have received a far more fair trial than Trump. Trump's trial is running the risk of being viewed as a farce - which will not play out well over time.

 

[Weezer]

Well, that didn't last long. Here I thought I was going to have an intellectual conversation with you, Weezer. And then you go and run off with this Trump rhetoric. So disappointing.

LOL Trump rhetoric? When did the United States Constitution become "Trump rhetoric". Put away the Dem propaganda and your hurt feels and focus on actual facts.

 

[luthervol]

Because Schiff made sure to establish "fair" rules in the House "investigation". Hypocrisy at it's finest. Dems set things up to their advantage in the part of Congress they control, then turn around and cry about not being able to do the same in the part they do not.

What exactly was unfair about the house's investigation?