The Impeachment Thread

#36,376
#36,376
Vol Main said:
The House Speaker has alleged that Trump used U.S. tax dollars and military aid for attempted bribery of Ukraine's President, in a quid pro quo exchange for Zelensky announcing a bogus investigation against the leading Democratic candidate.
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hog88 said:
She should have spelled that out in the impeachment counts.
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This. That's not what he's charged with. As all in as the left is with this, I'd think you guys would be aware of what the actual charges are.
 
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#36,377
#36,377
Weezer said:
Look at the end of the post and you'll see I included misdemeanors.

He's not being charged with bribery. Do you even understand how this process works? He's facing two charges, both incredibly vague. Abuse of power, and obstruction of Congress. Neither of which reach the level of impeachment IMO. The Dems have overplayed their hand.
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The abuse of power charge clearly includes his attempted bribery.
 
#36,380
#36,380
luthervol said:
And I was only commenting on the fact that the rules for Clinton's trial were written in consideration of the house's investigation.
The investigations were met with entirely different hurdles and for rules to guarantee a fair trial, they would have to acknowledge and compensate for those differences - in now way should they be exactly the same.

As it seems to be shaping up - Clinton will have received a far more fair trial than Trump. Trump's trial is running the risk of being viewed as a farce - which will not play out well over time.
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The Senate did not take into the house investigation into consideration in either case. If Mitch would have taken the house investigation into consideration he would have voted to dismiss the impeachment already. During the house hearings for Clinton's impeachment Clinton was allowed to have legal representation and question witnesses, no such offer was made to Trump.
 
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#36,382
#36,382
hog88 said:
She should have spelled that out in the impeachment counts.
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Perhaps that will come at the end. Today, the House gave a devastating presentation of Trump's conduct, showing that there was zero evidence for Trump's allegations against the Bidens and Ukraine intervention in the 2016 election. So the groundwork is laid out for a bribery charge.
 
#36,383
#36,383
Vol Main said:
Perhaps that will come at the end. Today, the House gave a devastating presentation of Trump's conduct, showing that there was zero evidence for Trump's allegations against the Bidens and Ukraine intervention in the 2016 election. So the groundwork is laid out for a bribery charge.
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They've already laid out their charges.
 
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#36,384
#36,384
Weezer said:
This. That's not what he's charged with. As all in as the left is with this, I'd think you guys would be aware of what the actual charges are.
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The charges clearly state that his withholding approved funds in exchange for a publicly announced investigation into the Bidens is at he heart of the abuse of power.
I would think you guys would actually read the charges.
 
#36,386
#36,386
Vol Main said:
Perhaps that will come at the end. Today, the House gave a devastating presentation of Trump's conduct, showing that there was zero evidence for Trump's allegations against the Bidens and Ukraine intervention in the 2016 election. So the groundwork is laid out for a bribery charge.
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Changing the narrative again? At no point in those testimonies were there any bribery points taken. Digging, digging, digging to a no no there.
 
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#36,388
#36,388
Weezer said:
This. That's not what he's charged with. As all in as the left is with this, I'd think you guys would be aware of what the actual charges are.
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If you are going to call me "the left" then I get to call you a God forgotten Nazi. I am not "the left."
 
#36,391
#36,391
hog88 said:
The Senate did not take into the house investigation into consideration in either case. If Mitch would have taken the house investigation into consideration he would have voted to dismiss the impeachment already. During the house hearings for Clinton's impeachment Clinton was allowed to have legal representation and question witnesses, no such offer was made to Trump.
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Sure the house investigation was considered when agreeing on the rules. Which were bipartisan and unanimously agreed to.

Sure the offer was made to Trump. He refused.
 
#36,393
#36,393
Weezer said:
No, it doesn't. Bribery is an actual Constitutional charge for impeachment. If they could prove bribery, that would be the charge. That's why they went with abuse of power.
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Yes it does. They are clearly describing the act. The proof is in the witnesses and documents that Trump is trying like hell to suppress.
 
#36,394
#36,394
luthervol said:
Sure the house investigation was considered when agreeing on the rules. Which were bipartisan and unanimously agreed to.

Sure the offer was made to Trump. He refused.
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No the House investigation was not considered. If it was please provide your backup.
 
#36,395
#36,395
luthervol said:
Withholding funds until a publicly announcing an investigation into the Bidens

for the 100th time.

And please don't be lame enough to make the ignorant argument that the funds were released without an investigation.
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And for the 100th time, there wasn’t any investigations. No mention by the witnesses for that investigation.
 
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#36,396
#36,396
Vol Main said:
If you are going to call me "the left" then I get to call you a God forgotten Nazi. I am not "the left."
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Then skip that part and focus on the actual meat of the post. You're here arguing, have you actually familiarized yourself with the charges? Or are you throwing crap against the wall to see what sticks?

Put aside any personal feelings for Trump. I've stated several times I don't like him. But this isn't about love or hate for the man. This is about the Dems turning impeachment into a political tool. And that's what they are trying to do.
 
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#36,398
#36,398
volinbham said:
I meant easiest because he's not going to fight a subpoena - Mulvaney or other would have more info
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They might have different info at other points in time. But if they were going to testify truthfully it's clear what the conclusion would be.

As to Mulvaney vs Bolton, one point. Even if Bolton was willing to come in, Trump could still assert privilege and forbid it. The privilege belongs to Trump, not Bolton.

There would be a court fight, which is why the GOP is resisting even issuance of the subpoena. Trump would have to explain what he's worried about coming out. That's a bad look for Trump, not Bolton.
 
#36,399
#36,399
Vol Main said:
I guess you missed the part about groundwork being laid. It was absolutely, beyond a reasonable doubt devastating.
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Ground work being laid? Show me where the groundwork was being laid, because shifty Schiff said it? Once again, there were no witnesses made a point about bribery.
 
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#36,400
#36,400
luthervol said:
The charges clearly state that his withholding approved funds in exchange for a publicly announced investigation into the Bidens is at he heart of the abuse of power.
I would think you guys would actually read the charges.
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The fact you think you understand when you so clearly do not is comical. And if you think he'll actually be removed from office over this, you're setting yourself up for disappointment. The Dems do not have an actual case. That's why they filed such vague charges. But keep dreaming. Of course, a wise man knows as sweet as dreams are, you have to live in reality.
 
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